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1907 Bayonet info needed

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1100comp View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 27 2014 at 8:58pm
he!!o, I am relatively new to the Enfield world.  I have recently bought a No 1 MK3* and have been looking for a p1907 bayonet to go with it.  This week I bought one and I am interested to find out more about it.  On one side it has 1907 then under that it has a 3 and a 7, then under that it says sanderson.  On the other side it has various stampings.  Then on the end of the pommel it has I.R.T.C and 892.  I will post pictures of it later, any info would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance    
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Sarge View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2015 at 4:13am
he!!o '1100comp'...
 
In your description you give the manufacturer: Sanderson, and a date stamp: '3' & '7' = March 1907. I've been collecting the Pattern-1907 for several decades, and that date stamp indicates to me that there is a number missing (faintly or partially stamped) from the year.
 
A picture paints a thousand words, so if you could kindly post a couple of photo's of both the ricasso's = blade flat from cross-guard to start of the blades fuller (central groove)... it will be easier to identify.
This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2015 at 10:00pm
dittos what sarge said im thinking you will find a 1 infront of that 7 , these were in trials from 1906-7 and only adopted in January 1908 but its only a silly guess without seeing the closeup photos , you might have a trials piece with its quillon intact for all i know , sanderson was one of the early producers , but suposedly there was only one made in 1907 and that by ROF ENFIELD , 

if it has the clearance hole in the pommel its a later one , 1916 or later when it was re-introduced to P1907 mfgr , yours should have it by my guess , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1100comp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2015 at 5:50pm
Here are the pictures, hope these help identify it







highlighting the stamps


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 2:40am
Wow. Nice piece
Hoadie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 3:47am
Looks like 03/1917 production Sanderson as mentioned previously. It's been chromed at some point by the look of it. Not sure if that would be for ceremonial duties or if someone just wanted to chrome it.
 I'm sure Sarge can give us more info!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 4:05am
Yes....  a very nice Pattern-1907 manufactured by Sanderson in 1917. If you look at the attached photo... just below the point of the arrow... you'll see the very faint stamping of a '1'. The lower portion of the cross-guard shows no sign of any quillion being removed, so verifies the '17' stamping.
 
This whole bayonet including the scabbards metal fittings have been buffed up for parade use. 
 
This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 4:47pm
dittos what said above and i see that clearing hole as well , just sayin 

my father-in-law was in charge of some sub repair at a naval base in japan after his second tour in VN , one of the things he showed me was a pair of chromed M1905 chromed bayonets that were awarded for successful completion of renovation project - it was done on the crew level , not really a sanctioned thing , what im getting at is if not parade use - possible something like that , 

i recently had occasion to discuss presidential funerals , we were reflecting on a number of things from kennedys [yes a couple of us remember well] to reagans etc , the shiny chrome bayonets were mentioned , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 8:52pm
Your quite correct about the clearance hole in the pommel, but in this case its rather immaterial. What we were searching for was the actual manufacture date, so we had to look at the less obvious = the lower portion of the cross-guard. From 1914 onwards this feature of the '07' was manufactured without an upswept quillion (hook), so evidence of quillion removal was searched for. As no evidence of a modification was found to be present, this ruled out a manufacture date of 1907, so the next obvious step was to search for the missing year number.
 
So... quite elementary my dear Watson! ;-)
This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2015 at 11:35am
agreed , but i have seen some fairly clean quillon removals that dont completely confirm that as well as some fairly convincing quillon add ons that begged careful scrutiny to detect as well , the clearing hole would not be an added feature to increase value nor would it be present in the obscure trials bayonets , it was a worthy observation of later production in this case , 

lets call it a confirming feature shall we ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2015 at 11:50am
Yes... no problem. No two individuals ever look for the same criteria. We all have our own workable systems. Personally, because many pre-1916 '07's did escape the 'Clearance Hole' modification... I tend not to use it as a defining factor.
This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1100comp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2015 at 6:48pm
Thanks guys, I appreciate the wealth of information you guys have on this matter.  It's actually quite fitting that it is a 1917 because my rifle is made in 1917.  would any of you know what the meaning of these stampings are?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2015 at 6:02am
The stamping of: IRTC = an officers training college. These were quite common at the time of The Great War. As soon as I find the reference to your marking... I'll post here.
 
The lower stamping: 892 = the rifle rack number.
This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon287 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2015 at 6:38am
?Infantry Replacement Training Center??
Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their planet!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2015 at 6:55am
I surmise that your imput was a guess 'Jon287' Geek
 
There are lists of the OTC's online...  some fragmented... others more complete. My own is quite extensive, being compiled over the years, but I have no reference of this one. A tad more in-depth research is required, but it will be found....  somewhere! 
This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon287 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2015 at 7:09am
Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their planet!!
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