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mausernut View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 17 2017 at 10:23am
Not sure if this is where to ask this. Am currently reloading for  sporterised BSA No 1 Mk 111 That has a Parker - Hale barrel on it.
Best groups so far are 2 " or slightly less. My question is should I keep trying for a better load or is this as good as it will ever be?
if you can't be an example, be WARNING

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Pukka Bundook View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pukka Bundook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2017 at 5:16am
It appears you haven't been swamped with replies, Mr Mauser. :-)
 
I'd say that was very good as is, if range is 100 yards.  If it were me, (being curious and all that,)  I'd still try and improve but there is nothing wrong with that as is for a sporting rifle!   Most guns shoot better than we can hold them so enjoy it as you go.
 
Best,
Richard.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2017 at 6:30am
How many rounds in the group?
Group size expands with more shots.

Handloads or factory?
Handloads frequently beat factory.


Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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mausernut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mausernut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2017 at 4:51am
I do 3 shot groups as I go up in powder. Usually wait 1 minute between shots and then walk down and measure the groups. When I get a load I like I will do 3-3 shot groups for a hunting rifle and 2-5 shot groups with a varmint rifle. This is all done off a benchrest with shooting bags in my backyard at 100 yards.
The rifle I am using is in Aftermarket Enfields as my second Lee Enfield. Am not done with this gun yet and will try more combinations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2017 at 7:03am
That's pretty good. Maybe one more tight ring round (+/- 2/10 Gr) to test for a sweet spot.
I can get 2" for 10-rounds @100yd. out of my No4 so maybe there's a little extra yet. Those rounds are precision loaded (primer uniformed, neck sized, reamed chamferd & so on) with all brass & bullets individually weighed)so there's eventually a rule of diminishing returns to consider.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Long Tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2017 at 1:58am
Dear Mausernut,
Sorry this is late. 
I am brand new here but I feel I have had some experience so here goes from NZ. You do not say how many rounds, factory, miltary or reloads or if iron sights or scope.
I will assume you have a bright shiney bore and good iron sights and that you can shoot.

2" for a five shot group is about what the rifle is capable of if in good condition, off a rest with commercial ammo.
I once thought "that was that" for LE accuracy until I bumped into 'Chris' one day at the range and watched his No4 scoped match rifle (.308) clean up everyone else including myself in a general CF Rifle match at 100yd. I was really impressed with it. And the trigger was original but 'tuned'. His group was truly tiny.

So there you go. 
I will add that often these lovely smooth old rifles will shoot gas checked lead bullets better than jacketed. And I would be careful (get a magnet) to avoid steel pills too.
Stuart.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mausernut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2017 at 4:27am
This gun has been sporterised by Parker Hale. It was a BSA but the barrel is Parker Hale, and it has a Parker Hale side mount on it. Bushnell Elite 3200 3 x 9 on it. I think it should do better than that. There are pictures of it in After Market Enfields.

Problem is my range  time is zero right now as it is seeding time. Working long hours 7 days a week.
If things keep going the way they are we will be done in another week.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dodgyrog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2017 at 11:20am
Depending on the state of the barrel I'd expect 1" or thereabouts at 100 yards
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mausernut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2017 at 5:41pm
Found part of my problem. Some idiot who shall remain nameless wasn't thinking (me). I bought some new brass for this gun as I had to throw out the brass I was using because of imminent web separation. Reloaded some of the brass I had fired in this gun that was neck sized and got much better groups. One is as low as .25", unless I missed the target completely with one bullet. Next best group is 1.25". Much happier with these results.
if you can't be an example, be WARNING

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2018 at 8:07pm
This thread is several months old, but the search for accuracy just never stops.

I now wished I had not done so much “load development”. Im sure I shot several thousand rounds on the bench trying to figure out how to wring out the smallest group sizes with my No.4. When I started, it had a new barrel fitted (service weight) and accurzed by Fulton’s at Bisley Camp in the 1960s for target shooting. Fitted with a PH 5c aperture sight.

My method was to fire 10 shot groups at 100 yards off the bench and measure the windage and elevation spread. I recorded every group. For some loads, I fired multiple strings of 10 shot groups, as many as 10. The load I settled on had an AVERAGE spread of 1.3 inch windage and 1.5 inch elevation. Several groups came in Sub-MOA.   I quickly learned that shooting one 5 shot group gave no indication at all how well a particular load would do ON AVERAGE as compared to others.    Some loads would have 9 out of 10 shots in one ragged hole with one flier, others would be scattered, but the same overall extreme spread.   The British method used at the Royal Laboratory of firing 20 shot groups and calculating the mean radial dispersion of the shots from the group geometric center (Figure of Merit) makes a lot of sense when judging accuracy of a particular firearm and it’s ammunition.

My current interest is to shoot in Vintage Military Rifle Matches, and all that bench rest shooting did was to erode the barrel throat. It did nothing to improve my position shooting skills. On a good day, the No. 4 will still hold 2 MOA, and I can sometimes do that prone, but 3 MOA extreme spread is probably more typical for prone shooting at the 200 yard target. Last year I shot a 10 round group at just under 2 MOA Prone at 600 yds that scored a 97 on the NRA MR-1 target but I have not been able to repeat that.   The first five shots were just over 1 MOA in the pic below.

There are a lot of shooters out there way better than me and I’ve often wondered just how good they were with this rifle back in the day when it ruled the service rifle matches. And back then, they used service ammunition, although likely special runs that tested with a low FOM. Ive got some DAC’51 “Match” ammunition that was used in the 1952 DCRA matches and it is indeed exceptional, it shoots almost as good as my 174 gr SMK handloads.


But now I’m just rambling...



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pogson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2018 at 5:14pm
That's much better but anyone can be lucky a few times. In searching for an accurate combination one should try to minimize the worst group... Approve

The keys to good accuracy in almost any rifle is to choose the right components and to assemble them very uniformly every time. Things that help me:
  • using an electronic scale with fine resolution, accuracy and repeatability - mine takes a few minutes to settle down but turns most of my non-ancient rifles into tack-drivers,
  • choose a powder that gives top velocity with a variety of bullet-weights and try a round or two from the starting load to maximum in small steps, say 0.5 to 1 grain or even less when you are close,
  • try different seating depths for the bullet - many rifles have long or short throats compared to what people use in the reloading manuals - close to the start of rifling seems best for me - use a good caliper,
  • use a chronograph - most rifles want each bullet to fly out the muzzle at the same speed to get the best groups - "sweet spots" can happen when the small range of variation in speed/departure time coincides with some particular point on the vibrational cycle of the barrel - sadly, temperature can also affect muzzle-velocity,
  • trim cases to length every time to ensure less variance in bearing surface with the case - adjust dies carefully to avoid sizing more than necessary and anneal case necks to avoid cracking, and
  • sort your cases both by head-stamp and weight.
Neck-sizing alone can cut groups in half. These other measures can do that as well. I have only one rifle that shoots commercial ammunition as well as my reloads. I don't know what's wrong with it...

For fun, I took two young friends out to the bush so they could try their brand new rifles and commercial ammunition. I took a ~100 year old rifle with no bluing and rifling that came and went down the bore. I got better groups... Of course I was only fifty years old then. I'm a little more shaky now.


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