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Adjusting Trigger Pull Weight

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britrifles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2018 at 2:26pm
What did you measure for the first stage, or is it a "first stage" let off that's happening?  Did you note if there is any movement of the cocking piece on the striker? 
 
The CMP VMR rules have a minimum trigger pull of 3.5 lbs; so I need to watch it and not end up with too light of a second stage let off. I'm glad you posted this info Goosic.
 
 
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Goosic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2018 at 3:03pm
It is letting off on the second stage,this I can clearly see. What I can also clearly see is what can only be described as,one fluid motion of the trigger. It does not,"stop" on the first land. I went so far as to wipe off the oil and put a dab of grease on the contact points. Same situation as before. And no,to answer your question regarding the cocking piece moving during trigger to sear contact on the first stage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2018 at 7:27pm
I thought I had a No. 4 striker in my drawer of spare Lee Enfield bits, but the only one I have appears to be a striker for the .22 No. 7 or No. 9 Rifle. There is no firing pin forward of the collar that retains the striker main spring. I didn’t find the separate offset floating firing pin for the .22 LR, so its not of much use. In any case, it’s a nice snug fit on the spare cocking pieces I have, but not usable in the No. 4. I did a search on the web for No. 4 strikers, I didn’t find any for sale, so I hope I never break one.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2018 at 6:05am
The whole thing is to remove virtually zero metal when polishing. Tiny changes to the humps have a big effect. You might find that the 2nd stage is in fact still there, but its been "lost" by the change in geometry. Have you tried it with the wood removed but the bottom metal firmly bolted into the receiver with just the spacer between them? It may be possible to return to the original separation by removing tiny amounts from the spacer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2018 at 6:23am
Shamu, yes, that might work, also bending the trigger guard could do it too, but neither is a good idea or prescribed process.

You are correct in that removing the tiniest amount of metal from the bumps will have an effect, which is the way that I would go. If the two stage disappears, it it usually the bump closest to the pivot pin that needs the adjustment to get some movement to bring that sear tip right at the edge of the bent. The other bump comes into play when you want the sear to trip off the edge.

I got me a handful of triggers at one time and spent a goodly time messing around with a stone. It doesn't take much to alter the pull off, so not something that anybody should practice on if they have but the one trigger on which to adjust. Very easy to screw up.

I have a selection of trigger guards with mounted triggers. I am lucky so far that there is usually one in the bins that will work for me. Some show obvious rough Bubba work with a file, they are usually not recoverable. Luckily, triggers are still a common used take off part and are readily available, there are even some new old stock ones still floating around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2018 at 6:28am
I did it with the wood off first and everything bolted in place. The separation is there,you can see it, especially with the bolt removed. I used a micrometer to gauge the individual pieces. The polished No5 sear/bent/striker release i have,is actually .003 larger at the trigger contact point then new unissued one I used as a test rig yesterday. If you pull the trigger slowly backwards you can see the first and second stages working,you just can't,"feel" it any longer. The trigger I'm using currently is a new one as well. Both lands are well rounded and nothing was lost in the polishing phase. The cocking piece,out of the five I had measured and tested,had the cleanest contact point and measured .001 larger then the rest of the group. I've got an old Savage 110 in 308 with an adjustable trigger that is set at 32 ounces. It is not near as smooth as what I just accomplished doing to this Enfield.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pukka Bundook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2018 at 6:32am
Brit,
 
I wonder if your striker is for the No 1 Mk 111?.....as you say it's slack on the threads.  The threads are different as you know, and wonder if someone attached the wrong striker.
 
 
Goosic,
I don't think you can Over polish the engagements, but if in doing so the angles shift a V small amount, it can throw out the second stage.
 
All best,
R.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2018 at 7:19am
All of the required angles are still there. I have been using original and unissued items for baseline workups between new and old. I used #0000 red jeweler's rouge as the polishing agent and then re-case hardened the contact points accordingly. The drag coeffecient has been reduced to less then that of glass,I'm sure of it. As I stated earlier. Both stages are there and can be seen in action. Both contact points are so polished that you've lost the "feel" of the two separation points. It acts like one smooth hump. There's almost no drag on the trigger gauge as well. As soon as contact and pull is established,the gauge starts a read at 28 ounces and steadily rises to the final let off of 40 ounces. I have calibrated and recalibrated my gauge,the readings are sound. The angles have not been altered on any contact point. The sear and trigger pins are not worn out and no noticable play has been detected in the two. Side note however. I did polish the areas between the receiver where the striker release/bent/sear rest and the area between the trigger guard where the trigger rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2018 at 7:49am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

The whole thing is to remove virtually zero metal when polishing. Tiny changes to the humps have a big effect. You might find that the 2nd stage is in fact still there, but its been "lost" by the change in geometry. Have you tried it with the wood removed but the bottom metal firmly bolted into the receiver with just the spacer between them? It may be possible to return to the original separation by removing tiny amounts from the spacer.
I thought of that too.
As a test,I took and marked each trigger guard and spacer from each No4 Mk1 rifle I have and installed them into the test rifle,using the newly polished items. I had one higher variance at 48.5 ounces. The rest of the readings where within the 40 ounce range +- 5/10th ounce. This was done both,with the wood removed and then installed...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2018 at 8:24am
I would like to,at this time state that,when I do clean up the trigger pull off,I follow what has been set down and established by Captain Laidler's instructions. I do not attempt to,"self improve" the original curves, contours, angles,other then to polish them,in accordance to the set standard. My Faux No4 Mk1 T has the same identical trigger pull that was done by Holland and Holland according to the instructions I followed originally from Mr Laidler. I have subsequently done that to the rest of my fleet. This is the first time an anomaly like this has presented itself. This particular anomaly is actually quite welcome. The rifle in question is my sporterized hunting rifle. The adrenaline rush of the hunt will negate any flinch I might have had when squeezing off a round anyways.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2018 at 4:30am
The loosened thread between cocking piece and striker is easily remedied; as described by Peter Laidler. I used this technique on my No1MkIII* when sorting out the trigger.
 Tin the striker threads with solder and use a soft wire brush to remove excess solder while it's still hot. It is a sure method and easy to do.
Regarding the cocking piece surface. I made a rig to hold the cocking piece at the required angle and polised on an Arkansas stone. There is a photo of the rig on here somewhere.
The Fultons rifles are a different angle to standard; at least that is what I've noticed on my Fulton's No4Mk1/2. Probably worth checking the sear and trigger at the same time and renew anything worn. Polish the contact surfaces too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2018 at 5:26am
Zed, this is exactly my plan, as soon as the striker removal tool arrives in the post (today hopefully).  The goal is a 4.0 to 4.5 lb trigger to keep it well within the CMP Vintage Military Rifle 3.5 lb minimum pull. 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pukka Bundook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2018 at 5:38am
Goosic,
Somehow I missed your last three posts on the polishing, and thank you for writing about it!
By what you say, it Does seem possible to over -polish whilst still retaining all correct angles.
I suppose that in the armourer's realm, over -polishing wouldn't happen because of available products and time factors.  (No X-fine jeweler's rouge)
Very likely your case hardening afterwards would also reduce friction, and I suppose wouldn't happen in an armourer's workshop.
You have very consistent results it seems , and this could be ideal for a "T" or for regular target rifles.
Thanks a lot for your experiences on this!
 
Richard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2018 at 6:02am
When you polish its important to remember that mirror shine is not the goal. You actually need micro-grooves flowing in the direction of travel to retain small amounts of lubricant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2018 at 7:48am
Zed.
Using silver solder on the threads is correct. Remember to use a small torch to soften the solder when removing the striker though,to avoid damaging the threads. The angle on the cocking piece for the Fulton's rifles should not exceed 6°. If that were to happen you can actually get the cocking piece to slide the sear down part way through the cycling and get a premature fired round. Watched another gunsmith do it after I told him not to,"file" a different angle into the cocking piece.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2018 at 1:54pm
Yes the angle is 6° on the Fulton's No4; and I used this measurement for my No1MkIII* to use in Modified Service Rifle competitions. However the original L39A1 has an angle of 10°. At least that is what I read some time ago. I'll have to measure that to check when I get time.
What is essential for safety is that when you pull 1st stage of the trigger; the cocking piece will be pushed slightly rearward. So if you decide not to shoot and release the pressure on the trigger, the cocking piece must return to it's original position! If not it could cause an accidental discharge
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