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Barrel To Fore End Fitment No4 MK1

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    Posted: September 20 2017 at 10:37am
I've done a little research on this and have read quite a few opinions on how the barrel should fit. I was going to center bed my rifle and float the rest of the barrel. All input would be greatly appreciated on this practice! Thanks! Beer

Oh, currently the barrel on my No4 is touching the right side of the fore end tip and sits with a slight down tension. Kind of a 4:00 position. The rest of the barrel is floated and looks pretty good. I am assuming the stock has warped to the left which put the barrel in contact with it.

Thanks again gents!

Brad


1917 NO1. MKIII ShtLE
1943 Webley MKIV
1948 NO4. MK1 (F)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2017 at 12:01pm
A poor fit at the recoil lugs can throw the wood left or right.
 I had this issue on my No1 mkIII*
I was able to shim the recoil lug's. Not being a master carpenter; I decided to use brass shims instead of a hard wood repair. I made shims out of an old .303 case; opened up and flattened out. It has varying thickness depending where you select the brass from. So you can have different thickness each side to help center the barrel.
You need to start from the rear and work forward. 

My No4 Mk1/2 is centre bedded; it was done by Fulton's. It shoots very well; actually better than I can shoot itEmbarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2017 at 2:59pm
I'd stock it up normally & only if its still lacking go back & add the center bedding. You can always go back in later & pack for central if its needed.

If its a little off center you could try a few coats of Linseed, sometimes when wood drys it warps & adding the liquid might just move it back.

You might also try thin shims under the knoxx, about 1 1/2" long & 3/4" wide, covering the bottom slightly off center. & at the front center of the receiver to make them both have contact equally. You'll need very little something like a cut & cleaned piece of a soda can may be enough! Oiled business cards used to be popular but I prefer something that can't trap or hold moisture.


I've frequently found that more really is less with Enfield barrels. Other than the green areas I'd have zero contact inside the forend, except for at the pad in the bottom front of the nose piece. It should have 5~10 pounds of up force there. One of the big issues seems to be handguard contact at the join or the center "web" of the forend making contact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2017 at 4:11pm
Like a lot of old wood (like Hoadies'), it needs help for proper fitment . Most are not 'plug and play' so to speak. Restoring these rifles and encountering this issue makes it more fun for me and my hobby.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2017 at 7:24pm
Thanks for the info guys.

I ended up making two shims out of pop can material. Adding these to the left side recoil lug brought the fore stock back and centered the barrel. 

Now I have something else to tune! I believe the bottom barrel tension I was feeling when it wasn't centered was the barrel hitting the lower/side 1/4 radius of the barrel inletting. With the barrel centered, it is now sitting slightly above the bottom of the inletting at the tip with a slight gap. Have any of you guys added a pressure bed under the tip?

Thanks in advance!

Brad
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1943 Webley MKIV
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2017 at 6:00am
You can shim there too, but it shouldn't contact the handguard at all, so a little careful positioning or sanding may be needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2017 at 10:50am
Getting all to work perfectly is quite a challenge (but very satisfying). The fit of the wood and trigger guard will also effect the trigger action. 
To get the up pressure at the muzzle end; you should first try refreshing the linseed oil treatment . As the oil is soaked up the wood may swell up if it has been allowed to dry out. 
If this does not do the trick. You can shim between the trigger guard and the fore end around the main screw. Make sure the spacer can pass through the shim. This will help lift the front end.
I would not recommend shortening the spacer; as it will effect the trigger pull. (Unless you need to sort the trigger).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2017 at 1:59pm
Yes baby steps, little ones. one at a time. That trigger can be badly effected if you go overboard.

If the oil doesn't work after 3 or 4 light coats one a night for each night, you might want to try either removing one set of shims from the front, or adding one on the two top flats at the rear. (red squares), obviously you'll fit to match the wood not just squares. This will tilt your barrel down slightly possibly reestablishing contact with the pad.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2017 at 7:21pm
Great advice guys! I totally appreciate it! I will let you know how things work out.

How do you go about getting an accurate weight of downforce on the barrel stock tip?

Brad
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1948 NO4. MK1 (F)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2017 at 11:32pm
upper handguard removed. Fore end fitted and tight. Slip a strip of paper betwwen barrel and point of contact with the fore end (at the muzzle znd). I use a spring balance (fishing scale) with a strap around the end of the barrel. Pull it upwards and read the load when the paper slips out freely.
About 5 to 7 lbs is good. You may need help holding the rifle if you don't have a rig to hold it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2017 at 3:06am
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

upper handguard removed. Fore end fitted and tight. Slip a strip of paper betwwen barrel and point of contact with the fore end (at the muzzle znd). I use a spring balance (fishing scale) with a strap around the end of the barrel. Pull it upwards and read the load when the paper slips out freely.
About 5 to 7 lbs is good. You may need help holding the rifle if you don't have a rig to hold it.


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1948 NO4. MK1 (F)
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I use a trigger pull gauge simply because I own one!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2017 at 7:41am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

I use a trigger pull gauge simply because I own one!


Me as well. I have a Lyman.

I'm going to go shoot it this afternoon and get a baseline in its full free float state. Its a little windy but consistent. All I have is 180gr PPU. The 8Z devil ammo is staying home! LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2017 at 9:39am
Let us know how it shoot's as is; then keep a track of the improvements (if it needs any!)

Just encouragement; here are two targets from my No1MkIII* rifle. One taken before fitting the wood properly, and one after getting it sorted. This was my first time at stocking up the woodwork, so I read everything I could before starting. I'm happy with the improvement. (it was awful to start with)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2017 at 4:49am
That was a major improvement with your No1 Zed!

Mine seems to be doing good in a full floated state. I only had 5 rounds of PPU 180gr BTSP's. First shot went super high as I forgot to dial the micro rear sight down. OOPS! I set the rear sight at 200. Off my ballistics software it should be printing 2" high of center. The group was about 1" right and averaged 1/4" high of point of aim. I'm getting more ammunition in this week and will get a few more targets shot after then. Oh, the target was at 50 yards.

This is the most fun I have had with a rifle in years!

Brad


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2017 at 11:35am
The barrel on the No1 rifle is more flexible than the No4; so it is a bit more prone to flexing if not set up correctly. I still have one issue; which I may have to live with! that's when shooting competitions; the elevation of the second set of 10 rounds will change due to the heat already in the barrel.  Unfortunately I don't have easy access to a 200 metre range to practice and work out exactly what's happening. Obviously the time taken to patch targets depends on number of competitor's; factor in ambient temperature etc and there are lot's of variables.
Look's like you have a good rifle there.
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