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Churchills and Parker-Hale sporters

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robinpeck View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 30 2016 at 8:12am

A couple of mine:

Churchills (Gunmakers) Ltd. London
Lee-Enfield .303
Quality 1914 BSA receiver.
Matching numbers (bolt, receiver and barrel)
D+T for scope mount.
Italian Walnut stock with cut checkering (stamped SILE inside barrel groove).
On barrel: "Churchills (Gunmakers) Ltd. 32 Orange Street, London W2"






Parker-Hale, Birmingham, "Custom No. 1" Lee-Enfield .303
Quality 1909 BSA receiver. Parker-Hale barrel, .303 Cal. 5 round P-H magazine.
Italian walnut stock (stamped SILE under recoil pad).
D+T for P-H sidemount scope mount.





 

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hoadie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2016 at 3:17pm
nice stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evanguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2016 at 3:46pm
i also have a  Parker Hale custom no1, built using a no1mk3 enfield 1911, looks the same as yours lol but with proper cocking piece for the year, im not sure if it came that way or was changed over the years. also mines drilled and taped for the PH scope mount too, i have the scope mount but i use it iron sights.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2016 at 5:49pm
My 1916 Sport (BSA) is a Parker Hale as well. I love that rifle. She & I have done a lot together.
I bought her from the (late) chef @ the Welland Club a number of years ago.
He took a lot of deer with her, before I got her.
I just added to her lethality, somewhat.
I've always said - If the spam hits the fan during my time..it will be me & my P/H Sport & my Vimy Vet against the world. (I'll leave the others behind)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robinpeck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2016 at 2:50pm
In my opinion, the Churchills is the nicer rifle of the two, even though it retains the military sight, has a ten rd. mag, and no recoil pad. The checkering, fit and finish just seem a bit nicer. The P-H has the nicer piece of buttstock wood though. I haven't shot the Churchills yet so don't know how it compares to the P-H in terms of accuracy.
The leather sling on the P-H is stamped,"Made in England".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evanguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2016 at 7:10am
the Churchill may feel the best when shouldered, but to me it seems they put a lot less work into the rifle, basically slapped a painted sporter fore stock on it and a nice butt stock and didnt touch the rifle it self,

Parker hale did quite a bit of work to the rifle, changed the rear sight to a "Parker hale made" sight, filled and reblued or used non machined Enfield barrels. there are no marks of the old military sight pin holes. they have a beautiful two tone front stock on the rifle, no paint involved, the charge bridge was machined off tastefully, they were drilled and tapped from factory to use the Parker hale scope mount, made in japan 5 round mag so it can be used for hunting in Canada and lot of other countries. wonderful made in England, Parker hale strap for carrying the rifle and they even made their own swivels to fit the sling

so in my eyes it would be easy to spend a bit more time on fit and finish  if all your doing is taking someone elses work and changing the stock on it.

im most impressed with my Parker hale, and the Churchills ive seen just don't do it for me as much, also ive seen a few Parker hale built mausers in 243 and 270 again just wonderful looking HUNTING rifles. id take them over a M70 any day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2016 at 8:08am
Evanguy;

You are allowed a 10 Round mag in a L/E - even for hunting.
Lee Enfield (& M-1 Garand, curiously) are both exempt from the magazine laws.
I have that in writing - direct from the lawyer acting for the Firearms registry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evanguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2016 at 12:57pm
wow that's pretty cool  to know, i was under the assumption that it was like all other non semi-auto center fires and had a limit on the mag to 5 rounds while hunting and no limit at all while at the range.

cool man, good to know,

but back to using the mag as a selling feature other then hunting mag limits, its also the balance point of the rifle and feels great to hold the 5 round mag when carrying not with the sling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2016 at 2:18pm
yeah..Wish I had a 5 rounder
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robinpeck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2016 at 6:10pm
I agree that P-H did more work transforming the rifle...
 
... but you seem wrong about a few things. First, there is nothing "painted" about the Churchills forestock...not on the one I have...the black forend cap is a seperate piece of black material ("tenite" plastic?)...However on the Parker-Hale the forend "cap" is not a cap. Its just some dark stain on the same piece of walnut as the rest of the stock...you can see this when you take off the stock...the white line is not a real spacer and is just inletted into the walnut. The Brno ZKK rifles from the 70's and 80's used this same trick. A lot of guys claim them to be "rosewood" forend caps and apparently have never looked at the stock from the inside. This may or not be true of all P-H and Churchills rifles but what I say is true of ones in the photos. Also, both the front and the rear sight on that P-H were made in the USA by Williams. I believe earlier models may have had P-H sights (and maybe real forend caps?). I prefer the military sight. Maybe thats why I like the Churchills. The sling on my P-H says "Made in England" but it doesn't fit the swivels very well, and is probably not made by P-H. I just happened to have it and so I thought I'd hang it on an English rifle.
One more thing. The checkering on the Churchills is easily twice as good as that on the P-H.
I have well over a dozen very high quality European sporting rifles in various calibers but enjoy my Lee-Enfields just as much. At last count I had 9 (but I'm thinning them out). They are fun rifles. Light and very handy for hunting. I wouldn't want to have to choose between the Churchills and the P-H, but if I had to, I actually might pick the P-H because it is lighter and comes up to the shoulder a bit quicker...and yes, it is easier to carry with the 5 round magazine.(Unless hunting in grizzly country I have never put more than three rounds in a hunting rifle.)
 
Originally posted by evanguy evanguy wrote:

the Churchill may feel the best when shouldered, but to me it seems they put a lot less work into the rifle, basically slapped a painted sporter fore stock on it and a nice butt stock and didnt touch the rifle it self,

Parker hale did quite a bit of work to the rifle, changed the rear sight to a "Parker hale made" sight, filled and reblued or used non machined Enfield barrels. there are no marks of the old military sight pin holes. they have a beautiful two tone front stock on the rifle, no paint involved, the charge bridge was machined off tastefully, they were drilled and tapped from factory to use the Parker hale scope mount, made in japan 5 round mag so it can be used for hunting in Canada and lot of other countries. wonderful made in England, Parker hale strap for carrying the rifle and they even made their own swivels to fit the sling

so in my eyes it would be easy to spend a bit more time on fit and finish  if all your doing is taking someone elses work and changing the stock on it.

im most impressed with my Parker hale, and the Churchills ive seen just don't do it for me as much, also ive seen a few Parker hale built mausers in 243 and 270 again just wonderful looking HUNTING rifles. id take them over a M70 any day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evanguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2016 at 9:35am
Ok so its not painted, but its a solid color so its looks off to me, i like all Enfield, sporters, full mill spec or after market builds, i have 7 in 303 1 in .22 and 1 in .410. all sporters. well the LEC im restoring will be mill spec.
i also love the mill sights too on the no1's the one on my .22 trainer i have to set at 775m to shoot at 100m

also the stock on my custom no1 is made of 2 pieces at the fore end, it may be the same type of wood but definitely not the same piece it has a different grain pattern.

its all opinion based and how the rifle feels to the person holding it.

but the Parker Hale has
4 pieces of wood making the stock
Parker Hale made in England sights
Parker Hale made in England scope mount and rings (D&T from factory)
Parker Hale made in Japan mag
Parker Hale made in England sling
Parker Hale made sling swivels
Parker Hale stamped Lee Enfield barrel reblued and old sight pin holes filled
"Pachmayr White Line" made is USA recoil pad
also the charge bridge machined off and polished

so there are a few things that will make a Parker Hale build 303 more valuable to a hunter who doesnt want a "old surplus rifle" also shows the efforts put into the conversion.









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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2016 at 11:18am
Don't forget here were several Grades of P-H rifle. Its quite possible a "field" grade was painted, but a "Safari" grade had a separate cap & line spacer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evanguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2016 at 11:31am
yeah when i first made the post, i clicked "post" and my internet was down so i lost it all, and i reposted a short version

i had said in that post, there are different grades of both rifles, so the custom no1 may have been Parker hales top of the line grade when the chruchills rifle may have been their lowest grade they had,

so really there is no point in comparing them unless we had that figured out lol

in the end, they all go boom and hit what you are pointing at so they are OK in my books
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robinpeck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2016 at 4:40pm
I like them all too.
But my Custom No. 1...supposedly the P-H top grade,  still has a stained forend "cap", not a real cap. I think the same models changed over the years, so its not as simple as figuring out which grade it is...Like with most things, sooner or later manufacturing short cuts were taken to save costs...and the earlier rifles tend to be the ones that have more care put into them.
 
Still, I like them all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2016 at 7:01pm
My PH has military sights, and charger bridge intact. But it has been drilled for scope
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robinpeck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2016 at 2:27pm
I read that when Parker-Hale was bought out, the new owners piled up all the old Parker-Hale paperwork..the records, files and historical documents ...and burned them. So, unlike with a lot of manufacturers, we are pretty much on our own trying to figure out the various model ranges, years of production based on serial numbers, etc.
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