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Enfield 2A .308

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White Rhino View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 05 2006 at 6:39am
Well guys my wife is getting me an Ishapore, Enfield 2A .308 
 Is any one familare with this one? it lookes just like a No#1 MK3 from the picture that i seen.  Its my birthday Present!  
                                                  The "White Rhino"
"White Rhino"

"Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2006 at 6:40am
Are you SURE there aint any more left, where ya found her??? Sure??? How do I get a woman like that??!!
Hoadie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2006 at 6:50am
Yep there is one left but she makes two and a half of mine and she is a hell of a lot meaner when she gets made, the only probleme is telling when she is mad, probably why Brotherinlaw left I dont think it was the size thing. Oh and there is baggage too. my nephew, but he is a good kid.
 So whats the trade? Pelts, beads, weapons,Whisky???
                                                    The"White Rhino"
"White Rhino"

"Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2006 at 7:29am
Hey Hoadie, did ya get the E-mail i sent ya from work today???
 Perty wickid Eh!
"White Rhino"

"Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2006 at 10:51am
Originally posted by White Rhino White Rhino wrote:

Hey Hoadie, did ya get the E-mail i sent ya from work today???
 Perty wickid Eh!

Loved it! I GOTTA get me one of those!!!
Hoadie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2006 at 3:26pm
Just remember! These Old Girls were chambered for 7.62 x 52  Nato  not .308 Winchester ! You start running .308 Win ballistics through it & your going to get a very nasty supprise ! Feeding problems were common with these rifles but they were a sturdy Old work horse !


        Dave 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2006 at 7:14am
O.K. Dave you got me stumped. I thought 7.62x51 was the NATO size?
And was the same for .308? in my reloading book(Lyman 47th edition)
its heading in the book has it as 308 Winchester (7.62 NATO).
do you know of any sites that have more info on this in detail? would greatly apreciate it,you got me worried i dont want to have another accident. I dont like getting blown up,  been there dun that! dont want to do it again, and i dont want to mess up my new toy!
                                                The "White Rhino"
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"Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lithgow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2006 at 7:36am
Basically the difference is in the chambers. Military chambers are bigger and the headspace dimensions are larger in the military chambers.
The ammo is exactly the same size but military stuff is thicker in the web and so does not seperate like the commercial ammo would if fired in the longer chamber.
Headspace dimensions are as follows
SAAMI .308
Go 1.6300
No Go 1.6340
Field  1.6380
 
Military 7.62
Go  1.6350
No Go 1.6405
Field   1.6455
 
I think the 308 may be loaded a bit higher than the 7.62 but I believe Winchester do make an equivilent.
The problem is that you will have excessive headspace if you fire standard 308 ammo in a rifle headspaced for 7.62.
If you do a search you will find a multitude of sites debating this issue. There will be arguments from both sides.
The 303 british web site details this topic well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2006 at 10:01am
Arrgh! I have read about this until my eyes are gonna fall out! Here is a short version:http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2006/308vs762nato/index.asp
 
ED
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2006 at 10:34am
Lithgow,and Ed Hill,   Hey guys thanks for the info, as an ex millitary Man i never put one thought in there being any difference in the two rounds, I've been shooting store bought rounds in my spanish gaurdia for years. but did get better groups with millitary rounds when i used to have access to the real stuff. then first time i shot the spanish was at a 20 gauge spent shell at 100 yds and hit it. never did that with winchester, on first shot. thanks guys for this valuble info.  and Dave i still want to hear your input also, and anyone elsethat has some good info. the site was great Ed, thanks.
                             The "White Rhino"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2006 at 3:23pm
Lithgow has hit the Nail on the Head ! THe chamber of a miltary fire arm is built with a over size Chamber to accomidate dirty ammo & fouling ! THe Nato Round is 7.62 x51 (my typo in the first post ) The major factor is that the Nato stuff was loaded down around  the 43,000 psi level for these Enfields  where as normal .308 win is loaded up to 52,000 PSI . There are a number of loads that  are right down in pressure though ! But don't expect a great Case life from commercial Brass ! Try & buy ex mil once fired stuff .

  A few low pressure  loads are      150 gn  bullet

                                                      IMR 4831  46gn  approx  32600
                                                      HERC 2400  25gns           36700
                                                      H4831         50gns            37200
                                                      H4350         47gns            37400
  
     Please note these pressures are in Copper units per Squ  Inch
   AS a matter of interst the differance between CUP & PSI is that CUP is the American methord  which uses a Copper Crusher arranged to meassure  the Chamber pressure at right angles to the bore & PSI is the English  methord which uses a crusher disk (also of copper ) to measure the Bolt thrust & then is translated into Breech pressure

       Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2006 at 6:48am
Thanks Dave, the pressure and the tolerance is the catcher here. some thing you wont see whith the naked eye and its not common knowledge
to the novice and I my self was not aware of it. the pressure differance also i was not aware of. Thanks again i will do some more reserch on this and start looking for some old mil surp brass and ammo, just wish i would of saved all the mil ammo brass that i use to have.
I remember dumping buckets of spent brass from the range into 55gal drums when i was in the army. Man we could have a blast with one of them drums today.
                           The "White Rhino"
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"Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2006 at 7:29am
Originally posted by White Rhino White Rhino wrote:

Thanks Dave, the pressure and the tolerance is the catcher here. some thing you wont see whith the naked eye and its not common knowledge
to the novice and I my self was not aware of it. the pressure differance also i was not aware of. Thanks again i will do some more reserch on this and start looking for some old mil surp brass and ammo, just wish i would of saved all the mil ammo brass that i use to have.
I remember dumping buckets of spent brass from the range into 55gal drums when i was in the army. Man we could have a blast with one of them drums today.
                           The "White Rhino"
 
White Rhino,
 
yep after loading all the Mil-surp brass we could fill the drums with water and bust a few caps into them.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2006 at 8:25am
blows up REEAALLL good!
Hoadie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2006 at 10:00am
Oh Yea! I shoot beer cans filled with water, with a .22 its great. if ya want to mess with some one line them up some empty ones and fill yours.
they usualy leave thinking they didnt hit nothing unless they hit one at the bottom and make it jump.
"White Rhino"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2006 at 5:10pm
Here I go again the Prophet of doom!!!! Just watch out for EX Mil brass as it can depending on where it came from be Berdan Primed & not Boxer  (twin flash holes compared with single ) I got caught once with a batch of a 1000 once fired .223 brass ! It was Australian manufacture ! Bloody Berdan primed the lot of it !


      Dave
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