No. 1 Mk III markings |
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Matt
Newbie Joined: March 07 2006 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Posted: March 07 2006 at 5:01pm |
Hey all:
I've been looking at purchasing a No.1 MkIII Australian1941 SMLE and it has some markings on the Bridge Charger Guide that begin IA. Indian Army? The rest of the markings are difficult to see in the photograph. Does anyone have an idea what this means? If I'm not mistaken, aren't there five serial numbers: bolt, receiver, forestock, nose cap and barrel? |
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N/I\Z
Groupie Joined: February 18 2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 48 |
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"bolt, receiver, forestock, nose cap and barrel" Don't know about the forestock - sounds more like a Long Branch No 4 thing. Even if the barrel has been replaced, if it has been done while still with the military, the new barrel should have been numbered to the rifle. If the nose cap has been replaced, it will not match. It might be un-numbered. But an un-numbered nose-cap might be original. It is preferable that the bolt matches the receiver, especially if you intend shooting the rifle. Where is this mark on the charger bridge? On the top? On the side? Which side? |
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Cookie Monster
Special Member Joined: January 22 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7510 |
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Matt, If it is an ISA inside a circle yes it is an Indian Army issue. If it is an IIG with an arrow its an older Indian issued rifle. I Arty is the Indian Artillery, IAC Indian Armoured Corps. ICC Imperial Camel corps. IG is the Irish Gaurds. and IY is the Imperial Yeomanery. I hope this helps Cookie Monster |
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Matt
Newbie Joined: March 07 2006 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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N/I\Z,
The mark is on the right side of the charger bridge where it meets the stock. Since the seller didn't give me a clear answer on the nosecap and rear sight leaf serial numbers, I wonder if this is one of the Lithgow fakes or just unnumbered as you say. Cookie Monster: The markings read: IA space C (or G)O space S(or 8)AC space CA Any ideas? Thanks guys. Matt |
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Cookie Monster
Special Member Joined: January 22 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7510 |
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Matt, Ok I will look into it for you. Just behind the trigger gaurd is there an marks there in the wood on the stock? Cookie monster |
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#4Mk1(T)
Groupie Joined: February 09 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 48 |
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Are these marks below or inside a small 6 pointed star? If so they could be the Lithgow inspection marks.
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Matt
Newbie Joined: March 07 2006 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Cookie,
No marks behind the trigger guard, but on the butt is what seems to be a 6/45 and another set of three or four mostly illegible marks further back just behind the roundel (a plain brass disc with a brass screw through the middle) the last two which appear to be IN. I thiink this may have been manufactured in Lithgow and sent to India. #4Mk1(T), No, I haven't seen a star in the photos and there are only three photos of the left side of the gun. I do see what appear to be proofers' marks on the bolt handle - an X of some sort and on the locking bolt seating where the bolt handle lies in the locked position. These are J 3 above the MA LITHGOW S.M.L.E. III 1941. Also on the left side of foremost band of the bolt housing guide are some marks: ΛAOA (or4) on the first line and ??? followed by VII on the second line. Edited by Matt - March 09 2006 at 1:25am |
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Cookie Monster
Special Member Joined: January 22 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7510 |
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Matt, Can you get any Photos? Cookie Monster |
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Matt
Newbie Joined: March 07 2006 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Cookie,
I've got some photos. Also, the gun has been refinished, the nosecap and rear sight leaf don't have serial numbers and the gun has not been fired. Seller is asking $375 which I think is too steep. Think that sounds like a good price? I can send you the images to your hotmail address if you want. Matt Edited by Matt - March 09 2006 at 7:43pm |
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Cookie Monster
Special Member Joined: January 22 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7510 |
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Matt, $375 is on the high side unless you have a excellent find. Cookie Monster |
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allan
Senior Member Joined: March 11 2006 Location: Dapto-Australia Status: Offline Points: 1924 |
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hey guys, my names allan and obviously im new here...thought id join up. i own a lithgow 42 no1 mk111*. this rifle has all markings matching D 40400. just a quick ?. the bolt has the lithgow star with the same serial..under the star it has OA 42. did these rifles get made/inspected by the two different factories? requiring both marks? thanks for any replies in advance. |
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N/I\Z
Groupie Joined: February 18 2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 48 |
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Trying to keep this as simple as possible. Up to 1941, the only factory making arms in Australia was Lithgow (mark "MA"). In 1941, Bathurst Rifle Factory No 2 opened making parts for Lithgow (mark "BA"). In early 1942, Orange Rifle Factory No 3 opened, initially making parts and barrels, and taking over rifle assembly from Lithgow later in 1942 (mark "OA"). In June 1942, the Forbes and Wellington Feeder Factories (marks "FA" and "WA") started making small components to supply Orange. Slazenger started making wooden furniture for Lithgow in 1941, then Orange when assemblt transferred there (mark "SLAZ"). And, for completeness, J Ludowici Ltd, Sydney, made leather bayonet scabbards (mark "MANGROVITE"). reference: "The Lee Enfield Story" by Ian Skennerton, an Aussie and all-round good bloke! So this is why it is not unusual to have markings from multiple factories on one rifle. The same applies to British No 4s which used components made ALL over England.
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allan
Senior Member Joined: March 11 2006 Location: Dapto-Australia Status: Offline Points: 1924 |
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hello N/I\Z, thankyou so much for your insight, it certainly makes sense what you say and the book you refer by ian skennerton sounds like a must have item. i have only recently purchased my smle and its a start to hopefully a large collection..hence my knowledge is limited and will grow with time, and with all the reading i do on web sites... cheers once again..
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G'Day Allen welcome to the site Great Old clunckers the MKIII's I'm real fond of em
Dave |
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N/I\Z
Groupie Joined: February 18 2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 48 |
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allan - no insight. I just pull the book off the shelf, find the right page and start typing.
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