Bolt head for 303 British Enfield |
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303Guy
Senior Member Joined: July 10 2012 Location: Auckland Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Posted: September 16 2013 at 12:08pm |
Interesting read. I had read this before but forgot what he said. Something he said which I had been wondering about is the need to fit an extra long bolthead indicates the rifle needs to be deactivated. Something to think about.
On the other hand if one simply wants to minimise the headspace so as to preserve reloadable brass then I suppose that would be acceptable.
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303Guy
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ikesdad
Senior Member Joined: May 10 2007 Location: Western Slope Status: Offline Points: 393 |
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Here is a list of some of Peter Laidler's articles. Mr Laidler was an armorer in the Brit Army and he is a wealth of knowledge for Enfields Possibly scroll down to the article "Fittng Rifle Bolts" http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=16948 |
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Pro Deo et Patria
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ikesdad
Senior Member Joined: May 10 2007 Location: Western Slope Status: Offline Points: 393 |
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Rattler could you please post some detailed pics ?
Does anybody know of any Enfield nuts in his area that could help Rattler out ?? |
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Pro Deo et Patria
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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Rattler: please check your e-mail.
Pics & a loooooong post sent. Let me know if I can do any more to help. |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Homer
Senior Member Joined: January 01 2013 Location: Brisbane Status: Offline Points: 664 |
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I think some gunsmiths are gunsmiths by name only. I know one that's about to grind the bolt lug faces on a worn No5 bolt back to square, then put shims behind the bolt head to headspace it correctly. Same bloke sold a lithgow to a bloke interstate, that had the very small lug at the rear of the bolt broken off. When the buyer inquired and complained, this dealer and so called gunsmith sent him another bolt in the mail. Frankly I don't know how some of these blokes get their licences and survive in the industry.
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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It might even be a misunderstanding completely. "No4 bolt head" may mean a bolt head for a No4 rifle, particularly if you take the description from the right squint angle!
Lithgow never made No4 rifles though so I'm a bit at a loss to understand whats going on here. |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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ikesdad
Senior Member Joined: May 10 2007 Location: Western Slope Status: Offline Points: 393 |
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I look at gunsmiths as I would mechanics.
Some are best at brakes and tune ups, others shine with transmissions, etc. Same goes for gun docs. I would guess that 99% of a gunsmith's work is scope mounting and such. It is hard to find one that is skilled in the issue, whatever it might be, at hand. |
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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I'm curious if your rifle actually has a problem at all, given the smith's skill & experience level with the Lee-Enfield system. What made you take it to someone in the first place?
Did he say exactly why it would have to be "mothballed"? I've seen some err, umm "creative" yeah, that's it, "creative" explainations of headspacing the rimmed .303 in the lee action which is why I ask! There are even 2 slightly different standards for which is the correct headspace. |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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ikesdad
Senior Member Joined: May 10 2007 Location: Western Slope Status: Offline Points: 393 |
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Much better than I can put into words, Shamu
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The Rattler
Groupie Joined: August 13 2013 Location: North Texas Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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Thank you very much for this information.
The Rattler |
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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Its a discussion that comes up fairly regularly, I'd suggest doing a search for "bolt head length" or "Headspace adjustment of SMLE", or something similar.
Meantime heres the short version. Lee-Enfields adjust for correct headspace by either changing or machining the length of the bolt head. The No1 rifle (also known as SMLE) had one bolt head length, (way too long) & they were fitted to the individual rifle by shortening them untill they just made headspace distance. The #4 rifle went a step further. It has a different bolt head (which is not interchangable with the No1/SMLE)& to spped up production they were pre-made in different lengths numbered as 0~1~2~&3. Sometime in the history many of these were apparently ground on as they vary in length quite a bit even within a specific "number". What is needed for your rifle is to obtain a "too long" head, or build up the length to "too long" by adding material & then machine back to the correct length to give good headspace in your individual rifle. Your current smith doesn't seem to be very clear on most of this, so I'd suggest finding one that is more knowledgable on the Enfields & how to headspace & fit the bolt, there is a bit more to correct fitting than just headspace, the lugs have to both bear evenly & the head can only turn past TDC very slightly. |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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BrassMagnet
Groupie Joined: July 05 2012 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 56 |
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Is ther an info thread somewhere on how to do this, what is available, and how to decide what is needed?
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5thBatt
Senior Member Joined: October 27 2008 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 324 |
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There isnt even a number 4 bolthead for the No4, there are 4 sizes 0, 1, 2 & 3
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TRX
Groupie Joined: November 20 2009 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 86 |
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He's a gunsmith? Why doesn't he weld it up and face it off on the lathe?
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ikesdad
Senior Member Joined: May 10 2007 Location: Western Slope Status: Offline Points: 393 |
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Possibly the 'smith does not know the difference between the #1 mk111 and #4 mk 1
Any Enfield nuts in your area that might know more than him ? |
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Shamu
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I've never heard of numbered bolt heads for the S.M.L.E. (Rifle No1 Mk111, or mk 111*)!
I was always under the impression that numbered bolt heads as such were a feature of the No4 rifles. Differing lengths for the SMLE yes, but numbered ones no. Maybe thats the problem here you neeed a specific length, but the "No4" doesn't exist as such for your SMLE #3? |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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