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5thBatt
Senior Member Joined: October 27 2008 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 324 |
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Posted: June 27 2014 at 8:24am |
Vids as promised Both vids start with the staggered charger in place the correct way up with the rims in front of each other, then inverted & 2 staggered charger loaded upside down so all rims behind each other First one with my cutaway. This second vid shows me cycling the action to show no rim locks as this cant be done with the cutaway due to lack of tension on the extractor due to cuts in the bolthead. BTW all done with drill rounds, no live ammo. |
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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I'm impressed.
So why the instructions for loading the way they are as it works this way? |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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5thBatt
Senior Member Joined: October 27 2008 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 324 |
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Don't really know Shamu, but a correctly loaded Charger _-_-_ seems to be the most stable, a staggered Charger the bottom round is very loose & will flop around & the rounds can tend to skew L & R when loading into the rifle, i stopped the staggered technique years ago as i found i had more trouble with it, in fact the inverted staggered charger (as in my videos) seems more reliable, but not as reliable as a correctly loaded Charger & good technique.
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hoadie
Moderator Group Joined: March 16 2006 Location: Niagara/Canada Status: Offline Points: 9003 |
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I sure wish I could find a "cut away" version.
That is so cool! Hoadie |
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Loose wimmen tightened here
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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Maybe that it, its just a question of good & better rather than works & doesn't?
I remember being on a range where our ammo came in chargers, unusual as we usually got the 32 round boxes. The R/O caught some shooters re arranging the rims to staggered & went ballistic. |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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MaxP
Senior Member Joined: March 21 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 184 |
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There is a simple answer to the question. The chargers are loaded "one down one up" so it doesn't matter which way you put them in. If loaded "one over the next over the next..." and you get the charging bit slightly wrong then you will get a "rim over" jam.
The Enfield magazine is a magical box that can sort the rounds as you load them almost any way you like so the top rim is always in front of the rim below. The catch comes when you exert pressure on the rounds in the wrong spot. In 5th's vids he is standing over the action, rifle in a rest, and pushing straight down. Easy to see what you are doing, and easy to get it right. Now try it in a prone shooting position behind the rifle while presenting as small a target as possible to the enemy..... KEEP YER HEAD DOWN LADDIE! The correct way in the musketry instructions is to put the thumb on top of the rounds and the tips of the fingers under the foreend beside the magazine and squeeze to load them. Doing this you can tend to let your thumb move forward away from the charger and put the pressure about the middle of the cartridge. This changes the angle the rounds approach the mag and can tend to tip them in point first, allowing the rims to miss the one underneath and ride rearward behind it. It's easy to simulate. Try once with your thumb at the edge of the charger as far back as you can, then try again pushing down with your thumb in the middle or even further forward and watch what a difference it makes to the attitude of the rounds. Yep, rim over jam! Hey... just watching 5th's excellent vids again... note the charger is a little forward of the finished position of the rounds in the magazine. The magazine angle actually slides the round back a little the instant it clears the charger leaving next to no chance of the next round getting behind it! I think the magic I mentioned above has been revealed! Loading with the thumb too far forward changes the angle of the follower and spring and does not allow the magazine to do this, making the next rim land behind the one below. |
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Homer
Senior Member Joined: January 01 2013 Location: Brisbane Status: Offline Points: 664 |
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MaxP sorry to tell you, your No1 has a savage sight on it:)
Thanks for the interesting post lads. |
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muffett.2008
Senior Member Joined: December 09 2011 Location: scone. nsw Status: Offline Points: 751 |
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Stirrer, he only uses it to get a bite
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Homer
Senior Member Joined: January 01 2013 Location: Brisbane Status: Offline Points: 664 |
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Muffer the good news is, those sights go well in eBay:) |
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5thBatt
Senior Member Joined: October 27 2008 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 324 |
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You are of course quite right about how i'm doing it in my video, but thats not how i normally do it or how i started to do the video, this was the only way i could do it to keep all in-shot, you should have seen the earlier attempts, the charging worked fine but the video was un-watchable. ETA as i said earlier it's all about your technique so practice until you can do it like you're "standing over the action, rifle in a rest, and pushing straight down." This is a short video i made to demonstrate that there is no need to remove the last Charger after loading |
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Bear43
Special Member Donating Member Joined: August 11 2010 Location: Doland, SD Status: Offline Points: 3059 |
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5thBatt, thanks for the videos! MaxP, thanks for that explanation. I had been wondering how the rounds would sort themselves out like 5thBatt had mentioned in that other thread and I just couldn't see it. Nice to have that cleared up in my mind now. Only about a million other things to clear up in there now
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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Thumb position is definitely critical. Anything too far forward just "cocks" the charger in the guides as they aren't a real tight fit.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Canuck
Special Member Donating Member Joined: January 17 2012 Location: Agassiz BC Status: Offline Points: 3535 |
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Isn't the auxiliary spring supposed to line up the rounds correctly in the magazine? One time I replaced a flattened aux-spring and the rounds loaded perfectly after each cycle.
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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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I'll confess, I never figured out what it was supposed to do!
I had one break at the range once. It snapped right tat the "U" probably from using strong ammonia cleaners, which I did back then. It took a while to find a replacement but I was able to carry on as though nothing had happened. I've heard several "reasons" explained but the only one that made any sense at all was the protection of the mag's front wall from FMJ tips in recoil. |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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5thBatt
Senior Member Joined: October 27 2008 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 324 |
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While it does help protect the front of the mag from impact from the projectiles (i have seem mags with little dents from such) its main function is to provide a smooth hard surface for the front of the follower to control it's travel up & down so that it's always presented at the correct angle to aid feeding from the mag, without it the front of the follower could get hung-up against the front of the mag, this would also apply to charging, you don't want the front of the follower snagging on its way down.
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Canuck
Special Member Donating Member Joined: January 17 2012 Location: Agassiz BC Status: Offline Points: 3535 |
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Good explanation that makes total sense. Shamu and I have learned something new today about our rifles! Thanks 5th!
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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
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