Service load duplication |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | |
Long branch
Senior Member Joined: January 08 2014 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 251 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: October 26 2014 at 11:08am |
I'm a relative newcomer here, but I've been playing with surplus rifles for as long as I've been of legal age to buy them. I've been reloading almost as long. I've reloaded for mausers, enfields, and 1 Swiss k31. I've always found that surplus rifles shoot best with the loads they were designed for. I always try to duplicate these loads. There's one problem, I have never owned a Chronograph. Up until recently, they were prohibitively expensive. So, how do I know I have the right velocity? The answer came when a friend of mine asked me to zero the iron sights on an old '94 Winchester. He had just bought some of the then new lever evolution ammunition for it. He told me it wasn't "doin' right". I didn't know what that meant until I took it out and shot it. The bullets were hitting 6" low and 10" to the right, in the direction of the rifling twist. The bullet weight was the same 150 grains he'd always shot, but these moved faster. It was then that I developed a theory that the increased velocity was causing increased spin drift.
Later on, I was playing with a Mauser. I was shooting some federal ammunition. The listed muzzle velocity was lower than the military load that I had researched. Sure enough, it shot high and left. So, here is my procedure for service load duplication. I first try to find a bullet of the correct weight and general type. For most of our purposes, that means a 174grain spitzer. 180 grain is probably close enough for those of you that have boat tail intolerant rifles. Then, I start with a minimum load for that bullet. I say minimum because you'll probably be using a different primer and brass type than what was tested in the book. If it shoots where it should, you're done. On a #4 enfield, this should be a couple inches high at 100 yards. If it hits extremely high, you need more velocity. Windage should also center itself up, provided the rifle was properly zeroed when you got it. |
|
Long branch
Senior Member Joined: January 08 2014 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 251 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Obviously, you need to watch for pressure signs. I like to use the slowest burning powder I can reach my intended velocity range with to keep pressures down.
|
|
CTB
Groupie Joined: September 17 2014 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hi Long Branch ,
me also i tried to duplicate the service loads ( ...but using a Crony ) on the LB n4 i found that 40 gr about of IMR4064 under the Sierra 174 HPBT at an oal of 78 mm give about 738/ 743 mt.sec. ( military load speed ) ....there is anyway a problem with the different bullet ballistic factor that produce a different trajectory so having regard to the impossibility of a correct use of the rear sight at a distance more then 200 mt ....i given up CC |
|
nec aspera terrent
|
|
Long branch
Senior Member Joined: January 08 2014 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 251 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
What bullet were you using?
|
|
DairyFarmer
Senior Member Joined: July 19 2014 Location: In The South Status: Offline Points: 555 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
On the theory of twist. The greater the rate of twist the slower a bullet can travel and still maintain stability.
The great thing about reloading is the ability to control the loads for your specific rifle. By adjusting the load you can find the sweet spot. And this includes everything from resizing the case to the type and amount of crimp you put on the bullet. Bullet placement is more important than velocity. What good is an extra 30fps when you miss the mark? Have a look at your local range. They or a member will have a chronograph. Just make 101% sure you don't put a bullet through it. Find a load that your rifle likes and gives the desired grouping. Then start adjusting the velocity if you want to.
|
|
Long branch
Senior Member Joined: January 08 2014 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 251 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Working up match loads and duplicating service ballistics are two different things, but that's some good info. I will also add that for long range shooting, velocity does matter. You have to move the bullet fast enough to get it to the target. An accurate mouse fart load won't do it.
|
|
CTB
Groupie Joined: September 17 2014 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I tried : - Sierra MatchKing 174 gr HPBT - Hornady 174 gr FMJ BT (#3131) - Sellier&Bellot 180 gr 2909 - Prvi Partizan 174 gr FMJ FB - Prvi Partizan 182 gr FMJ BT i noticed the closest to the military trajectory it is the Hornady despite a shape totally different then military MKVII ah ! ...to copy mil.traject. need a lower speed ( about 725/730 mt/sec ) ......with my 1945 LB n. 4 mk1* practically new CC
|
|
nec aspera terrent
|
|
No4Enfield
Senior Member Joined: January 19 2008 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I'm looking for a good load too, mk7 ideal but I'd settle for even mimicking the privi partizan factory load. Anyone done this successfully?
|
|
SW28fan
Special Member Donating Member Joined: July 02 2007 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2951 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I use the Sierra 180 gr on 39 grains of Varget which comes very close to the Mk VII load and is very accurate
|
|
Have a Nice Day
If already having a nice day please disregard |
|
Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 5585 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The best way to reload to military velocities is to invest in a chronometer. They are not that expensive, and you can load up batches of 5 rounds with an gradual increase in load until you get speed you want. It's much easier to note what you are doing when you've got an accurate record. However you may find that dropping the speed a bit will be more accurate; especially on the No1 SMLE's.
|
|
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
|
|
Tony
Moderator Group Moderator Joined: April 18 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3256 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Vhitavouri N140, 41 grains behind a sierra 174grain bullet col 78mm, privy cases cci or federal primers works for me. The above load is 0.7 grains below max so I wouldn't exceed 40 grains. |
|
Rottie (PitBulls dad.)
“If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
|
Andre-Richard
Groupie Joined: September 11 2016 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 27 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I've settled on 174 SMK/N 140/40.0
However, considering the cost of SMK's, I tested bulk (500) 174 FMJ PPU bullets. Extreme weight variation went from 172.2 to 174.4 (!). However, I weighted each of the 500 bullets, segregating them in lots .2 grains apart and voilà (see 100 meters target below). About the same as SMK for 1/3 of the price... |
|
Andre
|
|
Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 5585 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I have also tried the Sellier Bellot 180 grain ogives; and had a similar experience. The weights are not regular and had to check each one and batch them by weight. They work well in my No1 rifle.
I have bought some PPU ogives to test as well but have not had time yet. Will probably finish off the SB's before going there. |
|
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
|
|
Andre-Richard
Groupie Joined: September 11 2016 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 27 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
A friend tried the same test with S&B bullets and got similar results. Apart from gross imperfections, I think that regularity in weight is what separates target projectiles from knock about bullets. But then, weighting each bullet is not particularly fun...
Garde ta poudre au sec, tire juste et parle vrai. |
|
Andre
|
|
Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Anyone have a good ball powder load for about 2500 FPS with 150 gr pills?
I'm tired of fighting with the pencil lead shaped IMR 3031 in my Dillon meter. |
|
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
|
|
evanguy
Senior Member Joined: May 08 2015 Location: N.S. Canada Status: Offline Points: 355 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I havent used it yet, but i believe BL-C2 would be an ideal powder for the 303 british. Low pressure higher velocity. Personily i belive it will do exactly what you want. Varget is also a nice powder but im not sure if its a ball powder.
|
|
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |