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What is this stuff? (strange ".303-like")

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Shamu View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 14 2014 at 1:46pm
I'll post pics soon but here's the gist of it.

If I took a .303 case, cut the end off to make it 1 1/2" long. Didn't bother with the case neck, just left it about .359" in Dia., Filled it with 17 1/2Gr. of brown flakes that seem to be 2 different sizes?? & primed it with a shotgun primer, had absolutely no projectile & sealed it with paper or rubber that was saturated with white wax, what would you have?

Beats the heck out of me but I just "inherited" 2 X 10-round brown paper tied with old string packets of them.Shocked They came with some packets of the Indian-made .410 shotgun ball rounds, but the packet, although similar is smaller & once had a sticky label that fell off is about 1/2" shorter than the ones with labels for the .410 ball rounds..

If it helps any the headstamp reads:
"No1"
"1"
"K" (Eley-Kynoch maybe")
"52" (year, possibly?

Any ideas gents?
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2014 at 3:35pm
Blank?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2014 at 4:02pm
I was gonna say...blank rounds for ceremonial?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2014 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by hoadie hoadie wrote:

I was gonna say...blank rounds for ceremonial?
Hoadie

I concur with Hoadie!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2014 at 5:29am
They are definitely blanks, but for what?
I don't think they'll feed from a magazine because of the length & lack of a shoulder. I'll get some pics taken today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2014 at 6:56am
OK pics.

The top wrapper & case is my mystery item. The .303 live rounds is just for size comparison & the .410 shot-she!! in the bottom is to show the similarities (& differences) between my oddball & the regular Indian .410 round.

The "white dot" is the (waxed? paper/rubber)? seal from the case mouth which held about 17 Gr of some brown flake powder that seems to be in 2 different granulations!

You can see the wrapper is similar to, but smaller than the shot she!! wrapper & seems to be unmarked, or a sticky label fell off, leaving slight traces of glue which don't photograph well.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2014 at 7:17am
I'd suggest they are for ceremonial duty. Will had feed & eject with the bolt, as the rim is still there.
Course, the plug (seal) will vapourize upon firing.
That's my take on this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2014 at 7:17am
....unless, what type of charge would they use for greande launch?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2014 at 8:42am
The grenade launchers were short, crimped blanks, there was also a ceremonial blank that had a double neck down & was the length of a loaded Mk7 round so they would feed from a magazine.
The powders in them were very different, the salute blanks were either B/P or a fast burning pistol powder, but the grenade launches were some slow burning stuff called "Ballistite" so they wouldn't go high pressure with the extra weight of the grenade.

I tried loading on into the rifle. There's no way they'll even fit in a magazine the case is so short it doesn't reach the front magazine lips! You can single load them though & they'll extract & eject just fine.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon287 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2014 at 10:44am
What kind of cartridge did the Royal Navy use in "line throwing" Enfields??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2014 at 12:51pm
I don't know. Maybe the same stuff used for grenade launching?
If the line throwers were modified it might make sense that that may be what this is?
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2014 at 1:13pm
In the US Navy it is the same as the Grenade launching the line is attached to a rubber  faux grenade.  Note it really hurts if you accidentally get hit by one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2014 at 2:48pm
Apparently its the same in the Brit service,  but the cases are partially blackened to ID them as not being "salute blanks". The Brits also use a rod with a loop in the end, kind of like a giant, brass sewing needle. Now THAT will leave a mark!PinchCensored
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gun Nut 4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2015 at 1:51pm
It might be an attempt at a slug load for a .410 breech loading shotgun. Load the round ball into the chamber, followed by the loaded .303 brass which contains the powder charge and wad. You may have to insert a bit of paper in the chamber ahead of the ball to prevent the ball from rolling down and out the barrel. 

What I do is anneal and blow out the .303 brass to form fit to the .410 shotgun. That gives you 2 1/2" brass she!! case. Prime, add powder charge, insert some wad material, add the ball, cover with a top wad and gently run it into a.308 seating die to slightly fold it, to hold the top wad in place. My .410 shotgun is a bolt action, so I have to sand the head of the .303 case thinner so the bolt will close on it (this I have to do before I blow out the cases). With a break action .410 it might not be necessary to shave the case head. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2015 at 2:38pm
Wow old thread! I'd totally forgotten it.Censored
Let me see if I can find the missing pic & re-post it.
Yep here it is.


Bottom is a .410 ball shotgun round for the .410 converted Enfields.

Center is a standard .303 softpoint reload round for comparison.

Top is the mystery "case" & "plug".

I finally found out what exactly it was but forgot to post the answer. I tried several forums some MilSurp, some Collectible, some ammo & so on, but no-one seemed to know what the heck it was.

After that I got esoteric & started all sorts of unlikely corners looking for an answer. Many on the forums were stumped but helpfully sent all sorts of manuals & so on in an attempt to help.

The reason it was so hard to find turns out to be really, really simple, once you know it of course. Its not actually a "cartridge case"!
Embarrassed
Its an igniter for a British "Ack Pack" flame thrower!
Technically a "Ignitor, No1 Mk1 for Flamethrower, Portable, No 2" now there's a mouthful.Confused
Apparently they came packed in 10's because you'd get 10 "squirts" from the flamethrower & so you loaded 10 igniters to set them ablaze.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamethrower,_Portable,_No_2
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evanguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2015 at 11:14am
^^thats pretty cool. also good you found out what the ammo was
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