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No. 4 MK 1 1942

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Chris D View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 17 2018 at 2:07pm
I picked up a No 4 with some markings that don't match up with Stratton's Volume 2.  
 
I did not pick it up as a collector as as one owner did a very nice job of inlaying an arrow in light wood on both sides of the forestock.  Gives it some character.  If all it is a shooter that will be fine.
 
But I would like to ID its history a bit.  The collector said early BSA 1942 but it uses B markings not the M47C.   Not a lot of markings.  Only on the left buttstock socket.  None of the Markings line up with volume 2.  None of them are with the precision that are on my SMLE.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2018 at 2:55pm
Wild Guess.
Went to India, where it was scrubbed & renumbered. I say that because of the gloppy black paint. Do Do I also see a cross screw (Ishy screw) near the "flights of the arrow"?
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2018 at 7:10pm
Maybe so on the India excursion.  The mark is just a ding in the wood.  It does have an ENGLAND and a proof mark on the right side of the barrel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2018 at 7:20pm
thats were BSA markings should be , and the B prefix would be good for 1942 , the indians did tend to goop that black paint , BSA did not always use the M47C marking used a bold B early on 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2018 at 8:39pm
That’s right yes the bold B.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2018 at 8:56pm
I have an Enfield with 85B stamped into the butt socket and barrel. Isn't that a BSA stamp?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2018 at 3:16am
Could we get a closer picture of the inlay? It looks well done from a distance. Things like this do have collectibility in their own right, in mh opinion. It is neat to see when things like that are well done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2018 at 7:40am
The "ENGLAND" is a U.S. Import mark, pre 1968, so it was imported into the US before then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2018 at 2:04pm
Thanks for the comments.  the SNs do not match Stratton's book so I ordered Skennerton's hardcover.  The collector said that in the 41/42 period when the factories were being established BSA did not always follow the standard markings that were developed.  More to research.    the black paint is pretty high quality not like my late model Ishapore.
I took it to the range today. It is a great shooter probably the best of my MILSURP bolt action set.  I will get some detail shots for the arrows.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2018 at 2:07pm
The arrows caught my eye.   I saw this rifle in a memorabilia show a couple of years ago and then this Saturday.  The owner is a Lee Enfield collector and this one had not sold.  Folks get turned off by the arrows.
 
The arrows are the same on both sides.  This is a right side shot.  I will post a couple of closeups on the left.  Might have been done by a collector, might have been done by a Soldier/Armorer on his own rifle but nice to think it was an award/unit thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2018 at 2:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2018 at 2:45pm
Nice inlay work....better than I could ever hope to perform.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2018 at 7:45pm
you cannot fault the artist here - his work is exceptional in my book , 

as to the other ..." the SNs do not match Stratton's book so I ordered Skennerton hardcover.  The collector said that in the 41/42 period when the factories were being established BSA did not always follow the standard markings that were developed."
no one would expect perfect markings in those days , only functioning rifles , do not fall in the trap of believing every word of a certain reference book here - in enfields there is no "always or never" just most of the time - some of what has been published has already been proven wrong , most of it is reliable , 

you need to remember this was the war years , nothing was certain and so much is still to be uncovered although there are very good references , they were not thinking of us collectors at that time - they were winning the war , one rifle at a time and if the markings did not fit the norm it was of little consequence my 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2018 at 5:31am
I's have to think it was done privately after leaving the service. Anything like that done in service would result in somebody getting into all sorts of trouble.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2018 at 7:14am
I agree.  That is the most likely.  Especially since it appears it went through a repair program.
That gets back to the black paint, there is a reference in Stratton's appendix on finishes that some oil finished rifles when refinished at the arsenal or in the Factory Thorough  Repair program were given a matt or semi gloss paint finish.  He said is was called stoving.   Some had just worn areas painted others had the entire rifle action buffed and the painted.  It appears that this is one of the ones with a full paint job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2018 at 8:44am
"stoving" is repainting with something called "stove enamel" its a durable baked-on paint process.
That uneven stuff looks like Indian work with a brush.
http://www.industrialpaint.in/Stoving-Enamel-Paint.html
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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