Snipers. Then and now... |
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Honkytonk
Senior Member Joined: December 30 2017 Location: Brandon Mb Status: Offline Points: 4770 |
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Posted: March 15 2018 at 12:10pm |
I recently watched a documentary on Canadian snipers during WW2. Humbling, to say the least. I mentioned it to a guy at the pub and he said today's snipers are so much better. His reasoning was some of the incredibly long kills scored in the Middle East. I played a lot of competitive ice hockey in the late '60's through to the late '70's. I don't even watch it now because technology has changed the name so much. Steriods, composite sticks, scientifically engineered skates. Are the current players (or snipers) any better than the past? If you have a Good given talent, that never changes. How the way war (or sports) is fought and played does. My hat off to our military warriors, past and present. They make me feel safe...
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Macd
Senior Member Joined: January 26 2018 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Yesterday's snipers were shooting well within range of getting shot in return. Today's are so far away the targets don't even know where the shot originated. Not to take anything away from someone who can hit a target at 3.54 kilometers away but having a team outfitted with computers, wind measuring devices and using a modern rifle designed only for sniping must make it easier. It makes feats like the ones by Simo "Simuna" Häyhä nicknamed "White Death" by the Red Army using a 7.62x54r M28 that much more impressive.
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Honkytonk
Senior Member Joined: December 30 2017 Location: Brandon Mb Status: Offline Points: 4770 |
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Macd... My point exactly. And I toltally agree!
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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The technology has advance massively as well. Not just the shooting related but the ancillary stuff. Example you can laser range-find (invisibly with IR) punch in your GPS & the satellite will give you a range, wind drift, heading & so on right back.
I used a coincident-image rangefinder for years, it was handy but bulky. It was accurate I'd say to about 3% with practice. Now I use a laser that's in the order of inches at 7~800 yds & good to 1,000. |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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hoadie
Moderator Group Joined: March 16 2006 Location: Niagara/Canada Status: Online Points: 9003 |
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MacD: Today's snipers DO get shot, & shot at.(So do their "offsiders")
Methinks Rhino - if he feels he should - may expound on that |
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Loose wimmen tightened here
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Honkytonk
Senior Member Joined: December 30 2017 Location: Brandon Mb Status: Offline Points: 4770 |
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No weapons systems is impervious to counter fire. Tanks, snipers, artillery, air craft carrier,etc. Smart enemy combatants, especially on their own turf, know where likely attack positions will come from. Smart enemies probably have these positions pre-calibrated. If they have the appropriate weapon available (mortar, RPG,helicopter, long range rifle,etc) there most likely will be an attempt to elimate the threat with counter fire.
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Pukka Bundook
Senior Member Joined: February 02 2015 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1369 |
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No kidding that todays snipers are V good at their game, but the game is different as noted in the first post or two.
Simo had to read the wind, the light and the range and did it extremely well without any modern support or props. As also noted, he was within close range of the enemy for much of the time. My hat is off to him, doing it by hand and eye. Todays team players are in a totally different situation, but still the best are Very good! |
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Stanforth
Senior Member Joined: January 08 2017 Location: Oxford England Status: Offline Points: 773 |
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Times change but I think the modern sniper must feel safer than one in WW1. 100 to 300 yards from his target, laid in the mud, awaiting the enemy to give his co-ordinates to their artillery and then having to wait for nightfall to make his way back to his lines.
Close range sniping is more about finding a spot and getting to it unobserved. My son in law has just done a sniping course with the RAF Regiment and the main part was spent on location and concealment. |
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Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.
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Honkytonk
Senior Member Joined: December 30 2017 Location: Brandon Mb Status: Offline Points: 4770 |
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I read once that there were lots of soldiers that could qualify in regards to shooting for scout/sniper. The book said the art of sniping was knowing your target, terrain, and getting there. Then patience. It said the most important part was getting back.
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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Yep the 5 "S"s.
Shape Shadow Shine Silhouette Sound |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Macd
Senior Member Joined: January 26 2018 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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There is a world of difference from then till now.
Francis Pegahmagabow. Eventually the only human element of sniping will be to choose the target. The AI will do the rest with smart bullets that don't miss. Suggested reading One Shot One Kill |
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Stanforth
Senior Member Joined: January 08 2017 Location: Oxford England Status: Offline Points: 773 |
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My 2 books on the subject are
A Rifleman Went To War by Herbert Mc.Bride. This should be of special interest to our Canadian and USA members as he was an American who joined the Canadian forces in WW1. Sniping in France by Hesketh Prichard. He was in charge of the Sniper School. They are both available in paperback which makes them affordable.
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Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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"Marine Sniper: 93 Confirmed Kills" Carlos Hathcock's biography is well written & researched if dated nowadays.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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hoadie
Moderator Group Joined: March 16 2006 Location: Niagara/Canada Status: Online Points: 9003 |
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Francis Pegahmagabow iirc used a Ross. As did a number of 1st nation's snipers in the first twirl at war
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Loose wimmen tightened here
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Pukka Bundook
Senior Member Joined: February 02 2015 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1369 |
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The White Sniper is a V good read, By Tappio and I forget his surname.
Goes into quite a lot of detail on Simo's methods. Some questions he asked Simo were never answered; he was rather reticent and only answered if he wanted to. R.
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