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he!!o and yet another help me with my markings...

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sly mcguffie View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 20 2018 at 8:35am
I work at a small local gun store and have seen many Enfields come and go. In fact, I take a personal interest in placing them with the right home, because for the longest time, they have been my favorite bolt action, ever since shooting my friend's Ishapore years ago.

Anyway, one recently came into my possession that I decided to keep. From what I can discern in my limited knowledge, it is a 1918, and seems to be all original. I noticed that there were crossed out serial numbers on the receiver, though. How common was that? I know many surplus rifles from various countries would be re-arsenaled at some point and be re-serialized, but had never seen that on an Enfield.

Also, I have included pics of various other marks. I am curious as to the probable factory of origin, and what the "D" with the arrow inside would mean. Also, any help with the markings on the stock is greatly appreciated. The barrel is serialized to match the receiver, and is marked '18. While that is super cool, if it is in fact correct, the bore on this gun is mirror finish and looks like new. There is an OD green type coating on the barrel as well. Was that original? It would appear so. Hard to imagine it being 100 years old.

Thanks for any help you can provide.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2018 at 8:39pm
Hey mate
The crossed out number is not a serial number. It’s an inventory number for the 3rd military district that was in the state of Victoria. The 3rd is represented by the 3 above the number. These numbers were barred out when the rifle was sold from service apparently so as to not confuse with the serial number.
The D and arrow represents defence department of Australia.
Khaki paint was applied during service as a rust preventative instead of grease. Some say it was for tropical areas but the instruction to armorers is not theatre specific. It was only applied under the wood line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sly mcguffie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2018 at 4:38am
Thanks Homer. Your info on the paint makes perfect sense and I can imagine most of these rifles have seen service in many different theaters in the last century.

As for the marked out numbers, I had no idea. If that is just an inventory number, then this rifle truly is all-matching. That made my day.

Do you think it was manufactured in England and afterwards sent to Australia, or was it possibly manufactured in Australia to begin with? Judging from my research it would have been made in England, and I didn't see any Lithgow markings or anything like that, but the Enfields are one gun I know little about, other than loving the design. Cheers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2018 at 4:13pm
Made in Enfield factory in England.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2018 at 4:51pm
yes in 1918 , its a mkIII* rifle , you know this from the right wrist markings - the "ENFIELD" is actually the factory marking not the make of the rifle for lack of better way to say it , then the date and the model at the bottom , Short Magazine Lee Enfield mkIII* 
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sly mcguffie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sly mcguffie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2018 at 4:57pm
Yeah, I just wasn't sure if it was possibly manufactured elsewhere, given that it seems some were made in Australia fairly regularly. What factories were active around the 1918 time frame in England, and are there any markings to watch out for that would denote a certain factory?

I am guessing based off of what Homer mentioned earlier, that with the DD and arrow showing it was used in Australia, and the stamps on the buttstock, would it have been likely to have been sent there during WWII or prior, maybe even immediately after manufacture in England? I am trying to soak up all the info I can from those far more knowledgable. Thanks again.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2018 at 5:53am
Serial numbers usually indicated a coded reference to the factory, if there was the possibility of ambiguity.

"Enfield" is a specific RSAF at "Enfield Lock" in North London. Unlike say BSA who had 2 factories that were separated by a code embedded in the serial number.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2018 at 12:45pm
Looks like a very nice and interesting rifle that you've got there;  well done!
let us know how well it shoot's too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2018 at 3:18pm
in 1918 RSAF Enfield , BSA , LSA , were the big ones in england , SSA 1916-1918 & NRF 1918 were active as well , 

of course lithgow in australia and ishapore in india , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sly mcguffie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2018 at 4:37pm
Thanks again everyone for the information. I really appreciate it. I feel fortunate to have found it and rescued it from relative obscurity, or worse yet, from being bubba'd beyond recognition.

One last question. We picked up another No. 1 mk. 3 in a trade recently and this one is pretty straight forward except for the funky red and yellow paint on both sides of the stock. It also was painted yellow on the rear sight and orange on the front. This couldn't have been something done while it was in service, could it? Has anyone ever seen anything like this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2018 at 6:18am
That's frequently used to denote wear conditions IIRC.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2018 at 6:09pm
IIRC..the red is a "red flag"

Hows the rifling?

What about the numbers? do they all match? Is there a "DP" anywhere?
Loose wimmen tightened here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sly mcguffie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2018 at 8:10am
The bore is dark with very minor pitting directly in front of the chamber. Nothing out of the ordinary that I would consider relatively unusual. The numbers do all match, including the barrel, bolt, etc.

It is however marked DP on the metal band on the top cover, directly behind the front sight, and again very clearly on the middle of the nose cap right in front of the bayonet lug.

So, I would imagine DP is bad, huh?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2018 at 12:51pm
DP = Drill Purposes (The ONLY is implied.)
Strictly for "square Bashing" I'm afraid.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2018 at 4:48pm
Sly:

Just in case you don't know..."Square bashing" means parade / drill purposes only.

Shes not safe to shoot
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2018 at 5:24am
Quite often, owners restore their sporter Lee Enfield back to full wood military spec. To do this they source replacement wood from one or two suppliers (who also supply smaller stores) that dismantled hundreds (if not thousands) of Drill Purpose rifles for spare parts.

If your rifle does not have DP stamped into the actual metalwork of the receiver or barrel, there is a good possibility that this is simply a rifle fitted with woodwork taken from a DP rifle. If the DP is marked on only the furniture, the rifle is worth a second look over.

DP rifles were used for square bashing yes, but also other drills such as loading, unloading, marksmanship training, dry firing, field stripping and many other uses.

In the military, DP means no shooting, period. DP rifles were not included in the rigorous inspection and maintenance schedules, no need. Shooting it was never even a consideration. Many countries used bold painted markings to make it obvious. I seem to remember seeing the red and yellow stripes would be brush painted onto wood, mag, receiver in a band around the rifle.

The reasons as to why a rifle is relegated to DP status are many, not always the case of simply being worn out. However, we should tend to err on the side of caution, and use them for display only. But many owners of DP rifles have been shooting them for years with no issues and live to tell the tale. Just sayin.....

If you had a parachute that was marked 'FOR TRAINING ONLY', would you consider using it for jumping out of a plane??
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