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Lead projectiles ???

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Cookie Monster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2012 at 8:28am
Originally posted by Smokey Smokey wrote:

303 guy, Those are paper patched bullets!
Can you give more details?
 
I concur and pictures if possible
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303Guy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 303Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2012 at 2:57pm
Here's a couple of fired ones.

The patch and a patched bullet.


The patch style that produced the impression in the bullet base of the first one.

This is a fired half-patch.
See how the patch forms a barrier between the casting and the bore.  The alloy I'm using is quite soft so it takes on the paper impression and grips it. This was a low pressure load - which is why it could be captured so intact.

Normally the patch would be disintegrated at the muzzle forming 'confetti'. Near full power loads can be achieved using fairly soft alloy castings.  Most people would use ordinary lube groove castings - without the lube.  Some lube and size after patching.  It's a very good way of bringing a worn and rusted out bore back to life.  It's also fun.

The paper patch also cleans and polishes the bore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2012 at 11:08pm
Interesting
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 7:23pm
303 guy, would you be willing to add some pictures of:
The bullet before adding the paper?
Showing how the patch is wrapped on?
 
And some more questions:
What do you use for a mold?
What is the diameter of the lead slug?
What do you use for paper?
What powder/charge?
How long does it take to do each bullet, or say a batch of 100?
 
I've considered trying paper patching but never had an idea on the amount of effort etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2012 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by Smokey Smokey wrote:

303 guy, would you be willing to add some pictures of:
The bullet before adding the paper?
Showing how the patch is wrapped on?
 
And some more questions:
What do you use for a mold?
What is the diameter of the lead slug?
What do you use for paper?
What powder/charge?
How long does it take to do each bullet, or say a batch of 100?
 
I've considered trying paper patching but never had an idea on the amount of effort etc.
 
I concur
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 303Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2012 at 1:24pm
I've been going through my photobucket collection and this is the best example.  

Here are two ordinary cast bullets patched up.  One can see how the patch shrinks down tightly onto the casting.  The castings are from gas check type molds with gas check left out.

This is the design of the core for one of my Brits.

And the swaged real thing.

And patched.

Some hollow nose and a flat nose castings.

One of my molds.  This one does that flat nose.

This one does a hollow nose.

The patch gets cut into a trapezoid then wetted and laid on a matt of some sort and the boolit rolled over it so the leading corner picks up.  Most people have longer tails and twist them then trim and press the nub flat on the bullet base.  I don't, I glue the overhanging corner and crimp the overhang over.  For the most part I dry wrap and use a curved patch because my bullets are tapered.  Most people would use a 308 mold (.311) for the Brit and patch it up to .314 or so.  I use ordinary printer paper but many use lined note pad paper which is thinner.  I use smooth sided home made molds with nose pour and a base plug which can be varied to adjust the bullet length and hence weight.

The trick to paper patching is that the patched bullet should fit the throat snugly and seat into an unsized case neck with just enough pressure to grip the boolit.  We use a small amount of lube on the patched bullet which assists in seating but quickly soaks away in my case which leaves a good grip on the bullet.

There is no need to get so complicated.  A basic mold and the right thickness paper and a patch that fits and you are away.  Well, it sounds simple and it is but it's like riding a bicycle - it starts out a bid wobbly.  But it is a he!! of a lot of fun!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budman46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2012 at 5:31am
rhino-

patching works but takes a lot of labor i don't wish to incur (i'm old!Big smile).

i shoot nothing from my enfields but cast,i using 170-200gr gas-check bullets over 17.5gr of alliant 2400 for appox. 1800 fps; sized .312" and lubed with liquid alox. not a hint of fouling after thousands of rounds, accuracy better than 2" @ 100 yds, and easy on the shoulder and pocketbook.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 303Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2012 at 1:29pm
A 200gr bullet doing 1800fps is no powder puff load.  You may be able to improve the accuracy with a larger diameter bullet base that better fits the throat for alignment but a 2" group is not bad at all and as the saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2013 at 10:17am
Im still playing with the lead projectiles !!   Im using IMR 4320 right now ...
"White Rhino"

"Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2013 at 9:49pm
super interesting thread , a lot of it over my head but ive learned a bit in reading it , i cast projectiles for my cowboy loads but im not very into all these fine ballistic techniques , i only shoot mine 30yards or less at really slow velocity
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daboone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2013 at 10:30am
I just got a No5 Mk1 ROF(F) (that why I joined this forum.)

After slugging the bore I realized the Lyman 314299 would need to be beagled to get .002 over the .313slug.  Using air cooled WW with the "enlarged" mold thing went very well. The mold was dropping 211g boolets. Just plinking at coke cans at about 50 yards was the end of those cans. Shooting off of the hood of my car at 100yd I got a 5.5in 9 shot group with the 10th being a flyer. I was using 18.2g of 2400 in neck sized cases.  Absolutely zero leading.

 This is most definitely a cast bullet rifle and it will be fun to do more load workup with shooting off a bench just to see what it can do. I have a 214NOE 129g mold that will be next to play with.

Thank for allowing me to participate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2013 at 7:01am
I have not found the sweet spot for my Paki Enfield yet with the lead projectiles ..but when work slows down again I will get back on it !!
"White Rhino"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrassMagnet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2013 at 8:44pm
I am casting 200 gr bullets in .311, .314, and .316 diameters.
.311 and .314 are cast using 311299 and 314299 Lyman moulds.
.316 is cast using 316299 from Night Owl Enterprises (NOE).
I also have a 320366 Lyman mould if I need to cast larger.
I'm almost ready to go to the range and play! Finding the larger sizing dies is a little challenging. They usually need to be special ordered. When I start to play, I will post photos and load data used.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LE Owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 8:15pm
A zinc alloy bullet cast in a mold that throws a 200 grain lead slug will weigh only 120 grains and be as tough or tougher than a FMJ bullet.
With the size to reach origin of rifling without excessive jump and long for its weight these usually work well in milspec throats.
A plus is that zinc bullets scrub away old lead, copper and carbon fouling.
Bullets with zinc washers on the base were used to clean heavily fouled musket barrels during the U S Civil War.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2013 at 7:52am
The zinc disc at the base of Union bullets was concave (undersized for easy loading) and would flatten against the base of the lead slug which would increase the diameter to fit (scrape) the grooves. They were supplied one to every ten cartridges. They did a good job, and shot fairly well when used.
 
I've been using the LEE 312-155-2R, sized 0.314 with a gas check, with water-quenched wheel weights in the 7.62x39 cartridge. It shoots pretty well, no leading that I could see and hits fairly hard with that little cartridge.
 
I'll have to look at what suitable moulds I have, and see what might be a paper-patching candidate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gun Nut 4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2015 at 4:52am
I'm not a fan of fast burning powders, I use  IMR 4895, and hard cast bullets with gas checks (G/C), 314299 mold, and I drive them with 37.5 grains of powder, I top the powder up with Cream Of Wheat (COW), it cuts down on any leading. I have a Pattern 1914 they work well in, and they do well in my Mk III. Their bore diameters run in the .312" to .313" range. I size them to .314. They are a bit large in diameter for the Mk I, as its bore runs about .311".  I use a 185 gr G/C in the Mk I which i shoot as cast, it has a dia. of .312 and I drive it with 33 grs of H-335 plus COW. 
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