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"Match" reloading for Enfields........

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Shamu View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 20 2010 at 7:21am
So here's the question.

Assuming a good condition out of the box Lee Enfield (except for a better sightThumbs Up a 4X telescopic one to be exact) is it worth the trouble to go through all the extra steps to make "match grade" reloads, or do we just make "good quality reloads" on a DillonStern Smile

Hehe! we'll find out tomorrow, cuz I have a sweet-shooting Enfield to clean tonight so I'm too busy to post the chrono data & target pictures till tomorrow.Wink


(In the U.S. News biz this is called a Teaser........film at 11)LOL



Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2010 at 12:26pm
The next question is: Watch is match ammo?  I am not being funny.  There is a load that is very popular among the folks who shoot 303s in the CMP Vintage Military Rifle matches I shoot in.  It is a light load we came up with for a Lady shooter that turned out very accurate along with having light recoil. Most of the guys shooting 303 are now using it.  A 150grain  soft point on 22-23 grains of SR 4759 which moves along at 1800 fps, anemic yes, but  it has won 2 matches.
Have a Nice Day
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2010 at 11:12pm
I was thinking more of the extra steps used to load "match" ammo as opposed to "standard" ammo.
This all came about due to a discussion between shooters where one claimed it was "Pointless to waste time loading fancy ammo for MilSurps, because they aren't accurate anyway!"
So to settle the discussion I loaded 2 lots o ammo from identical components, but, took the extra steps with the "match" loads.

All the brass was tumbled, trimmed, chamfered, deburred & primer pockets cleaned.
The "Match" loads had the following extra steps.
Primer pockets uniformed.
All brass weighed +- 1/10 Gr.
Flash holes reamed.
Primers seated with 180 degree rotation.
Bullets weighed +- 1/10 gr.
Bullets seated with 180 degree rotation.
Powder charges weighed to +- 1/10 GR.

The lots from which the 2 groups were chosen were all the same  all the bullets came from the same box & all the brass was from the same lot also, the difference was in the preparation for accuracy & consistency only.

The "Match" lot beat the living daylights out of the "mass produced stuff!

Here are the gory details for those interested in such stuff. The chronograph results are instrumental at 10 feet from the muzzle.

.303 British Custom Vs. Std load cases

custom loaded.

WEIGHT
runout
1 392.7
0.0030
2 392.5
0.0030
3 392.3
0.0020
4 392.9
0.0020
5 392.7
0.0010
6 392.8
0.0025
7 392.7
0.0010
8 392.8
0.0020
9 392.5
0.0015
10 392.7
0.0030
AVERAGE= 392.7
0.0021

bulk loaded.

WEIGHT
runout
1 392.5
0.0045
2 392.8
0.0030
3 392.7
0.0040
4 390.5
0.0040
5 393.2
0.0030
6 393.0
0.0020
7 392.1
0.0030
8 390.1
0.0020
9 393.0
0.0045
10 390.9
0.0040
AVERAGE= 392.1
0.0034

      BULLET        
CALIBER CASE PRIMER Mfr. TYPE Gr. POWDER GRAINS NOTES
.303 Brit PPU cci 200 Hornady FMJBT 174 3031 35.5 Development from earlier 34.0Gr. Load. Aiming for 2250FPS
DATE STRING SHOT VEL. LOW HIGH AVG. E.S. S.D. A.D. GROUP
03/20/10 1 1 2237 2181 2238 2217 57 20.6 16.0 1.5" (5)
03/20/10 1 2 2229 NOTES
03/20/10 1 3 2181 These are the "match" loads. Primer pockets uniformed, flash holes reamed, cases & bullets weight matched, Powder trickled.
03/20/10 1 4 2183
03/20/10 1 5 2208
03/20/10 1 6 2223
03/20/10 1 7 2238
03/20/10 1 8 2223
03/20/10 1 9 2221
03/20/10 1 10 2234












                       
      BULLET        
CALIBER CASE PRIMER Mfr. TYPE Gr. POWDER GRAINS NOTES
.303 Brit PPU cci 200 Hornady FMJBT 174 3031 35.5 Development from earlier 34.0Gr. Load. Aiming for 2250FPS
DATE STRING SHOT VEL. LOW HIGH AVG. E.S. S.D. A.D. GROUP
03/20/10 1 1 2186 36 2267 2219 81 29.7 23.3 5" (5)
03/20/10 1 2 2235 NOTES
03/20/10 1 3 2190 These are the "Standard" loads. Batch loaded on Dillon. Misc cases, misc bullets, primer pockets cleaned only, charges dropped from measure.
03/20/10 1 4 2213
03/20/10 1 5 2212
03/20/10 1 6 2186
03/20/10 1 7 2213
03/20/10 1 8 2217
03/20/10 1 9 2226
03/20/10 1 10 2266

Interestingly the bullets used were the Hornady #3131 174Gr FMJBT .3105" dia!
These had kind of gotten my interest once I got a nice tight 5-groove barrel to try boattails in.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2010 at 12:05am
Yeah, yeah, I know Pictures, we need picturesStar
Here you go, the server glitched before so I had to post 'em separate.
The target is a B-37 200yd reduced for 100 yd set at 100 yds & the rifle was my '55 Faz.
All shots were fired benched off bags as I was testing the load, not my shooting ability.

Std loads.

Match load:
Sorry about the flyer at the bottom.Censored



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stream25 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2010 at 9:25am
SW28fan, I just sent you a PM about this.  Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2010 at 11:27pm

What ammo did the snipers use in the Enfield's during WWII? Did the use the HV MkVII ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2010 at 11:28pm
Shamu not bad shooting !!Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airforcediver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2010 at 5:53am
Nice, Shamu
to bad about the flyer
 
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If all else fails call in a MOAB and call it a day
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MJ11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2010 at 1:16pm
Well done.
 
...MJ...
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LE Owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2010 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by Cookie Monster Cookie Monster wrote:

What ammo did the snipers use in the Enfield's during WWII? Did the use the HV MkVII ?

They were supposed to, but from a few stories I've run across Snipers apparently liked to rip off stocks of MkVIIIz from MG squads and occasionally aircraft gun ammo from the RAF.
Aerial gun ammo was a favorite of snipers and later target shooters in the US as well.
When synchonized guns were still in use the ammunition had to have near perfect ignition, since even a slight hangfire could result in a bullet hole through the prop. Aerial gun ammo was manufactured to higher standards than Infantry ammo, especially the primers, and subjected to more rigorous lot by lot testing.
In the US .30-06 aircraft gun AP proved to be very consistent in long range match shooting. It was also available in large quantity as surplus after WW2 since synchonized .30 MGs had been phased out by mid WW2 and most flexible gun positions upgraded to .50 guns.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Coleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2010 at 1:54pm
I've had machine gun ammo made by Winchester during WWII. I've had both ground machine gun and airplane machine gun ammo by Winchester. They were both loaded with a 175 grain boat tail bullet but the ground machine gun ammo was a bit mild and the airplane machine gun ammo was hotter than any other factory ammo I've tried. They were loaded a ball powder, "Ball C" powder is what it was suppose to be. It was a ball powder so it most likely was Ball C powder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2010 at 11:31pm
Originally posted by LE Owner LE Owner wrote:

Originally posted by Cookie Monster Cookie Monster wrote:

What ammo did the snipers use in the Enfield's during WWII? Did the use the HV MkVII ?

They were supposed to, but from a few stories I've run across Snipers apparently liked to rip off stocks of MkVIIIz from MG squads and occasionally aircraft gun ammo from the RAF.
Aerial gun ammo was a favorite of snipers and later target shooters in the US as well.
When synchonized guns were still in use the ammunition had to have near perfect ignition, since even a slight hangfire could result in a bullet hole through the prop. Aerial gun ammo was manufactured to higher standards than Infantry ammo, especially the primers, and subjected to more rigorous lot by lot testing.
In the US .30-06 aircraft gun AP proved to be very consistent in long range match shooting. It was also available in large quantity as surplus after WW2 since synchonized .30 MGs had been phased out by mid WW2 and most flexible gun positions upgraded to .50 guns.
 
Interesting never thought about that.  Thank you LE Owner for this little tid bit of information
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2010 at 4:21am
Go for the boxes with the red label.Wink
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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