M.O.A. w/bayonet |
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Tony
Moderator Group Moderator Joined: April 18 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3256 |
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And now a comment from a "smart arse" who does know what he's talking about
Whats with all the minute of angle mantra?? The rifles were set up to cope with a bayonet on the end not as a benchrest toy. As for barrel harmonics in the dark days of WW1 and WW2 when the Hun was knocking on the door equipment wasn't available to measure barrel harmonics accurately they were designed as a combat rifle and as such were very accurate. The rifle is only as accurate as the floppy pink bit behind the stock and quite frankly if anybody came on the range with a fixed bayonet when I'm RO I'd boot them off as a safety hazard. The forum "Rottie" |
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Rottie (PitBulls dad.)
“If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
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hoadie
Moderator Group Joined: March 16 2006 Location: Niagara/Canada Status: Offline Points: 9003 |
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Tell 'em what ya REALLY think,Tony!
Hoadie |
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Loose wimmen tightened here
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Tony
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I sure will Hoadie. It was you who christened me the forum Rottie and I'll live up to your expectations!!
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Rottie (PitBulls dad.)
“If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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as a CRO at our facility i too would tell my ROs to evict someone with fixed bayo "except" in the case of our anual vintage military rifle shoot , its considered a requirement for that section of the course of fire
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Shamu
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I always get a kick out of threads that go like this. A while back I had a Trilux SUIT sight, mounted on an FN-FAL. It’s an odd scope to say the least. The front lens is offset ½" to the left of center & the eyepiece centered at the rear. This was done to keep length minimized & not have the gas block, front sight & its “ears” in the field of view of the sight.
You should see some of the incredibly convoluted methods dreamt up to zero or sight in this sight because of the ½” horizontal offset. What was the real answer? Simple, have the MPOI strike ½" left of the POA, that’s it! Why? Well you see the spec for the FN-FAL calls for a 10 round group to have a 3-½” vertical by 2 ¾” horizontal group at 100yds. All those calculating convergence, like a WW@ fighter’s guns & using Pythagoras theorem were just beating themselves up because by 50yds the ½” was gone into shot dispersion anyway! Same with the Lee Enfield, it’s a battle rifle, designed to not have “Minute of Angle” target rifle performance, but “minute of adversary” battlefield accuracy out to 600yds 70% of the time. Want MOA? get a custom Remington 700 with a Shilen bull barrel & load up Sierra target loads! Can live with 3” groups’ (which used to qualify qualify as “Marksman” in the Brit forces) all you need is a good well-maintained Battle rifle like the FAL or No4 Mk2. This is actually 1/2 "minute of adversary" because that's a 200 yd, reducedd for 100 yd shilouette |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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25-5
Special Member Donating Member Joined: February 19 2013 Location: 1945 Status: Offline Points: 286 |
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For all my fellow RO's. The spike bayonet looks like a nasty piece of work. I have no intention of sticking anybody in the "arse". I am at the 200yd range of my club all by myself for a few hours of a weekday AM. Bye the bye, I would not take a loaded rifle with bayonet down range to stick the target and shoot a good group as suggested.
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For the pikes must be together at the rising of the moon.
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hoadie
Moderator Group Joined: March 16 2006 Location: Niagara/Canada Status: Offline Points: 9003 |
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Sham;
The BREN has an offset sight.Its UNBELIEVABLY accurate! Hoadie |
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Loose wimmen tightened here
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SW28fan
Special Member Donating Member Joined: July 02 2007 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2951 |
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I as an RO will allow someone to fix a bayonet on the firing line if the range is not crowded and they ask me first. You have gotten me currious so I may have to give it a try myself sometime when the range isn't crowded.
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Have a Nice Day
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LE Owner
Senior Member Joined: December 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1047 |
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From "A Basic Manual of Military Small Arms", by W H B Smith, page 21.
"In the production model of the rifle now being issued (No.4 MkI*), there are two apeture sights set at right angles to each other. One is set for 300 yards with bayonet fixed. When the bayonet is removed this sight is accurate to 400 yards. The second sight is set for 600 yards without bayonet. Customary battle practice is to have bayonet fixed when the enemy is in range of 300 yards or less." The same information may be found in Reynolds' "the Lee Enfield Rifle". Reynolds also states that rifles were sighted in at the factory without the bayonet.
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SW28fan
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Have a Nice Day
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Tony
Moderator Group Moderator Joined: April 18 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3256 |
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Oh dearie dearie me! Get your glasses on Shamu!!! You were supposed to shoot the target on the top left. The main target is for bayonet practice!!! As for the "spiked bayonet" it was 1 cheap to make and 2 ideal when attached to the handle of an entrenching tool to probe for mines the other saving grace was it didn't stick due to vacuum when shoved in the "minute of adversary". Hoadies comment re Bren is very valid we lugged a lot of brens converted to 762 out to the Falklands owing to a shortage of machine guns and like the originals were very accurate and a lot lighter and faster to deploy than the GPMG when we ran into the Argies.
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Rottie (PitBulls dad.)
“If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
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hoadie
Moderator Group Joined: March 16 2006 Location: Niagara/Canada Status: Offline Points: 9003 |
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Figures you'd use a "Northern" take on that. No matter...Best scene/sound of bayonets I've EVER experienced was @ the 125th battle of G'Burg.We were doin Pickett's.We were behind the Conf. artillery(reverse slope)during the arty duel.Officers came gallopping over the hill as the canon fire slackened. Orders given-Sgt's screamed, "FIX BAYONETS!".(This STILL gives me chills!)As ONE-more than 4,000 bayonets were pulled from the scabbards, & fixed in complete unison!!You could NEVER have rehearsed that!It was a VERY loud "swish...click,clack" It was so loud that 1 mile away, across the field, they heard it in the union line!!IT WAS AWESOME, to say the least!(Damn! I'm proud to have been part of that!) ..the confederate army was non-union! Hoadie |
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Loose wimmen tightened here
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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Oops I got the 300/400yd thing reversed.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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25-5
Special Member Donating Member Joined: February 19 2013 Location: 1945 Status: Offline Points: 286 |
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Thanks guys. Lots of interesting info. I am having a great time with this rifle. I have done a lot of shooting but never thought to have a bayonet.
I have made a bunch of different .303 loads and can't wait to experiment.
Glad to see you all have a good humor and a bit of thick skin.
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For the pikes must be together at the rising of the moon.
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hoadie
Moderator Group Joined: March 16 2006 Location: Niagara/Canada Status: Offline Points: 9003 |
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Tony is the one with the thick skin....he's part reptile! (& a small part Rottie)
Hoadie |
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Loose wimmen tightened here
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SW28fan
Special Member Donating Member Joined: July 02 2007 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2951 |
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I have pointy things that go on my rifles:
Just a representative example of major types.
The one on the Frenchie came with it.
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Have a Nice Day
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