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Modified 7mm x 72mm

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Magic1554 View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 26 2016 at 8:45am
Hi All, new to Enfields.  Just bought a rifle from my dad's buddy (recently deceased).  He had a 1917 modified for 7mm.  The barrel is engraved "7mm x 72mm".  The broker that I bought it from thought that it took regular 7mm mag ammunition, not the 72mm.  The former owner was a big gun guy, I doubt he would have had it marked as 72mm if it didn't accept those.

Is there a way that I can determine which ammunition I should be using?  Measurements I can make with a caliper, etc?

Thanks,


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W.R.Buchanan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2016 at 1:40pm
The action is not strong enough for the 7MM Remington Magnum. So that narrows it down. 
Not familiar with the 7x72 cartridge but it is probably a more common thing in either Europe or Down Under. 
 
I would research that and see what I was able to find out.  I doubt Factory Ammunition will be readily available if it exists at all, and if the cartridge is a wildcat caliber you definitely will have to load for it.
 
C&H or Huntington Die Specialties may be able to help with reloading dies for the cartridge and Forming Dies if it is necessary to create the cases from other brass.
 
I did find a 7x72R Chamber Reamer so the cartridge does exist. I suspect they are made by necking down a 9.3 x 72 R case, which won't be that hard to do,,, If you are an experienced and  advanced reloader.
 
The only real way to find out exactly what you have is by doing a chamber cast.  If you can't do this, I'd suggest going to a competent Gunsmith as they should be able to help you out.
 
I have been down this road of buying a gun that I thought was a .30-06 only to find out after I got it home it wasn't, and then chasing what it actually was for a couple of months only to find out the gun had been rechambered to .30 Ackley #1 Short Magnum!  Needless to say this is not a common cartridge but I was able to find both Reloading and Case Forming dies on Ebay for a few $ and then successfully make cases out of .300 H&H cases which cost me $1.00 apiece. 
 
At least now I can shoot it.
 
The barrel on my gun is not marked, and I personally consider it to be a crime to not have the caliber of the gun marked on the barrel.
 
At least yours was marked.
 
Love to see some good pics of that gun, it sounds like something unusual.
 
Randy
 
 
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ikesdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2016 at 2:11pm
WR, it sounds like he has a M1917, which should be fine for that round if all checks out safety-wise by a smith.
The chamber needs to be cast to determine the specs of that round and then one can go from there. Possibly a wildcat round ?
Is there anyway to check if there are dies for that in the estate ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2016 at 2:21pm
I was going to go back and suggest contacting the estate and seeing if the loading equipment is there.
 
you might even find some ammo or at least some cases.
 
Randy
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ikesdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2016 at 2:22pm
We are on the same page.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2016 at 2:30pm
"7 X72mm R" is definitely a valid cartridge, do a google for it Huntington have dies & Graffs has brass for it!
The only real way to tell the dimensions is to do a chamber cast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d5DA4_OcuE

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic1554 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2016 at 6:26am
Hey, thanks for all the great responses.  I thought the system would email notify me of replies, but I never got any so I didn't realize you were responding!  

I put some pictures on Youtube.  They are poor quality, will try to get better ones this weekend.  
https://youtu.be/RSh-xTxEJ0s

Went to Cabelas last night to look at Ammo (finally, been a hectic few weeks).  I did find a 7mm STW round.  The casing appears to be close to 72mm long.  

Found this description on ammunitiontogo.com
7mm STW ammo is also known as 7mm Shooting Times Western.Originally designed in 1979 by Layne Simpson, the Shooting Times moniker was adopted due to Layne Simpson’s contributions to Shooting Times magazine. The 7mm STW uses a 8mm Remington Magnum as its parent case, necked down to accept a much lighter 7mm projectile

Will try to contact the estate this weekend to see if they've sorted through ammo and reloading equipment, hopefully they haven't gotten rid of it.

Closing comment:  It was listed as an Enfield by the broker, but I have no idea how he would know it is an Enfield, I couldn't find any markings on the chamber or anything.  thoughts? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArcherSix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2016 at 7:26am
Well, that is an Enfield. Either a M1917 or a Pattern 14. I guess it could be a 7 STW(although I expect it's be marked as such), but I'd definetly do a chamber cast before I bought any ammo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2016 at 9:35am
7mm STW is just an 8mm RemMag necked down to 7mm.
Close only works with horseshoes & hand grenades.
Geek
Double check before you leap there are major pressure issues possible.
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7mm+Shooting+Times+Westerner.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic1554 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2016 at 9:50am
Thanks much guys!  The "estate" is still sifting through trailers of "possessions", but they'll keep an eye out for Ammo for me, which is a better response than I expected.

In the meantime, I'm going to ask around to a few of my friends to see if anyone can help me do a cast.  There are some videos on youtube I've seen, but still not confident to do it correctly myself just yet.

Definitely won't be firing the rifle until I'm 100% confident in the ammunition.  

Hope to have another update by mid April.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2016 at 12:06pm
OK that is a P17 or P14 action, and someone did a nice job of Sporterizing it.
 
You must have a chamber cast made to tell exactly what it is chambered for.
 
That's the only way to be sure.
 
Randy
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2016 at 3:56pm
I ran across the 7x72 R in my cartridge conversion book.   The cartridge is made by necking down  9.3 x 72R cases, by shoving them into a 7x72 sizing die. That is a simple operation if you have the dies.
It is a long skinny thing when done.
 
Randy
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic1554 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2016 at 5:24pm
Can you provide dimensions of the 9.3 x 72r casing?

After months of waiting for the estate, I finally took a cast last weekend.  The base diameter (0.513) and shoulder diameter (0.487) matched that of the 7mm STW, however the length at the shoulder was not a match (unfortunately I didn't realize this until after I already bought $120 worth of STW ammo).

based on comparing my cast to casings of rounds in the ammo store I found it almost identical to the 300 weatherby mag, but that casing has a rounded shoulder (unlike my cast).  I'll try to add a couple pictures (with additional dimensional specs) later this week.

Thanks,

Nathan


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2016 at 8:42am
Nathan:  I highly recommend that you take this gun to a reputable gunsmith and have him figure out what caliber it is.  Fishing around and buying ammo for something you are not sure of is not only a waste of time and money but could prove to be dangerous.
 
Once you know exactly what it is then you can go about finding or making ammo for it.
 
Before that you are shooting in the dark.
 
Randy
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2016 at 9:12am
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