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No 4 Mk 2 serial numbers

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Tango1 View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 31 2018 at 2:16pm
New to the forum after recently buying my first Enfield. Have to confess to being an American service rifle snob until I actually fired the Enfields......in the UK.  What a great rifle and how wrong I was!  Had to have one.

Bought a nice No 4 Mk 2 and all serial numbers match except for the bolt.  Can anyone comment on the this please?  Appreciate the information.  




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2018 at 2:26pm
The bolt came from a Savage Lend Lease No4. You can make out the square S on it but the C in the serial number is the indicator that it came from the Chickopee Falls plant. Someone may have lost the original bolt due in part to the fact that you have a No4 Mk2 that was not a FTR. Factory Thorough Repair.
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Thank you.  Appreciate the information.  Is it ok to shoot or should I have it checked out prior to use?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2018 at 4:30pm
I’d suggest having head space checked, someone may have found a bolt so they could sell the rifle, unless you know the pedigree. Locking lugs may not have lapped in for even bearing either. I would think the bolt would have been re- serialized if it had been refitted to this rifle by a military armorer and reissued, others on the forum may know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2018 at 6:07am
Absolutely check the headspace, its adjusted in the Lee Enfields by swapping bolt heads around till you get the correct distance.
More importantly is to have the bolt lug engagement checked. They were individually fitted & its possible to only have one locking shoulder engaged instead of 2!
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2018 at 11:19am
they gave you the most obvious with the cautions , 

that SN -- the one on the receiver is correct with referenced dates but some of the lower numbers were reported to have earlier dates , yours is an early one , but clearly marked to 54 , i dont see an FTR marking in the photos , 
The range PF309348-359347 were of the "irish contract" , 50K were made for that , some look on those as highly desirable , ive always considered all the contract rifles equal but never sought one of these out because everyone else was , if you happened into it you are fortunate in that others particularly want them ,

if complete and original save for that bolt , and it shoots [safely] its a great rifle , we would need to see a lot more of the rifle to comment beyond that , 

i once had a fair collection of US rifles , i found these more interesting in the end , not that i gave up all of my US military firearms by any means , i still have all my [dozen] handguns and a couple longarms , some being my M1917 rifle ,  my Winchester windermusket trainer and my springfield M1922 mkI1 traner , another being my colt VN era M16A1 , i miss them from time to time but my interest always turns to the commonwealth , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldhand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2018 at 4:45pm
The only firearm I have that was used for sure is my Colt M1917 45acp made in June 1918.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tango1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2018 at 7:44pm
Thanks very much for the information guys.  Is there a consensus on who's "the best Enfield armorer" in the states?  Seems like theses rifles are a unique animal and you want an Enfield-specific pro working on them.  I know the right people for US Mil stuff, but I'm striking out asking my usual trusted armorers about Enfields.  

I see new unserialized bolts for sale.  I'd like to have a new complete bolt group fitted if possible.

I just stumbled into this rifle, but it's looking like a project.  Appreciate the help.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2018 at 6:03am
Its probably unnecessary to replace the whole bolt, even a new one will need hand fitting &  the correct head. Then there's that little thing with no more than 15° over-clocking.
The usual (& correct) fix is to check the lug engagement (you can easily do this yourself), stone the lugs (if needed), then find a bolt head with the right length & thread fitting.
a couple of well known ones, there are others.

http://www.hankgun.com/

http://bdlltd.com/contact/

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2018 at 6:17am
Before getting parts or anything check the headspace and locking lug engagement. Checking the lugs is very easy to do. Here's the instructions from a man who was an armourer for many years, Peter Laidler. Note that this is done with the bolt head removed:

"Clean the locking lug surfaces of the rifle and put a smear of 'engineers blue' marking dye onto the corresponding locking surfaces of the bolt. Insert the bolt RIGHT FORWARD, rotate it closed, then draw it backwards and forwards a couple of times to mark the mating locking surfaces of the rifle. Push it forwards, unlock and remove. Examine the locking surfaces of the rifle. The blue witness marks should be evident. This ensures that whatever wear that has taken place on the rifle locking surfaces has taken place equally. If the dye pattern is one sided, then stone the high surface of the bolt until BOTH locking lugs bear evenly against the locking surfaces of the corresponding surfaces in the body."

Don't make it more of a project than it needs to be. Start simple with checking lug engagement. If that is fine, check the headspace. If both are fine, fire the thing. Use it as it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2018 at 8:51am
If you don't have Dykem or a similar blue you can use a felt marker as a reasonable substitute.
I used a turn of duck tape to protect the bolt body & an Arkansas stone to tweak the mis-matched ones fairly quickly & easily.the tape is so you can use a rectangular stone & then get it perpendicular by using the narrow edge on the lug & the big flat along the body.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2018 at 11:27am
Agreed Shamu; use an Arkansas stone for polishing the lug height to suite. To protect the shaft; I use a piece of soda can instead of tape. It's more resistant. 
I prefer the real engineers blue to marker pen; because it is a thicker surface covering which helps to show when your getting close.



Don't expect a large contact area on the lugs. But you do need some contact on both sides.
They are generally sit on the first part of the lug after the ramp.  The rifle looks like new in the photo( what we can see anyway). I would get a new bolt if possible; but that's just me! not necessary if the mismatched one fit's properly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Macd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2018 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by Bear43 Bear43 wrote:

Before getting parts or anything check the headspace and locking lug engagement. Checking the lugs is very easy to do. Here's the instructions from a man who was an armourer for many years, Peter Laidler. Note that this is done with the bolt head removed:

"Clean the locking lug surfaces of the rifle and put a smear of 'engineers blue' marking dye onto the corresponding locking surfaces of the bolt. Insert the bolt RIGHT FORWARD, rotate it closed, then draw it backwards and forwards a couple of times to mark the mating locking surfaces of the rifle. Push it forwards, unlock and remove. Examine the locking surfaces of the rifle. The blue witness marks should be evident. This ensures that whatever wear that has taken place on the rifle locking surfaces has taken place equally. If the dye pattern is one sided, then stone the high surface of the bolt until BOTH locking lugs bear evenly against the locking surfaces of the corresponding surfaces in the body."

Don't make it more of a project than it needs to be. Start simple with checking lug engagement. If that is fine, check the headspace. If both are fine, fire the thing. Use it as it is.


I am with Bear here.  Don't get too carried away.  Don't assume that the rifle has a problem just because numbers don't match.  Even a thin coat of your wife's nail polish on the bolt lugs will tell you if the lugs both engage the corresponding surfaces in the receiver.   It doesn't have to be perfect, just both touching.  Check headspace and then have fun shooting.  At the risk of being tarred and feathered, the Lee Enfield was never meant to be a "Silk Purse".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2018 at 1:40pm
Soda can!
BRILLIANT!
(why the heck didn't I think of that)?
Embarrassed
Agreed on the amount of contact, My factory-spanking new all matching No4 Mk2 has about 35~40% of the face marked as contacting, no more.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2018 at 1:59pm
Grumble...grumble..where did I leave that bucket of tar from the roof flashing?? Hey, you! Bring that chicken over here!! I need it!
Loose wimmen tightened here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2018 at 7:56pm
"..  Is there a consensus on who's "the best Enfield armorer" in the states?  Seems like theses rifles are a unique animal and you want an Enfield-specific pro working on them.  I know the right people for US Mil stuff, .." 

there are quite a few enfield collectors and armorers in florida , its been years since ive had contact with any of them but im certain you will find what you need if persistent , 

as the others said - do not over think or over react , one thing that is true with these - never say never or always , simple thought for rifles that were not made as interchangeable and hand fitted by armorers , most that are refitted are fine as long as not mucked about by civilians trying to improve them , 

do not fix what is not broken , 
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