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No. 4 Mk1* keyholing bullets.

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chucklz480 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chucklz480 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: No. 4 Mk1* keyholing bullets.
    Posted: October 24 2010 at 4:40am
Greetings,
                 Finally got a chance to shoot my No. 4 Mk. 1*.   Everything functioned flawlessly.  Rounds fed and ejected beautifully.   Recoil was suprisingly mild.  Unfortunately, about 30 % of my shots keyholed from 30 yds.  The rest were ragged as though about to tumble.   I was using 174 gr. Prvi Partizan.   I did a little research and found that the boat tail bullets might be the cause.  Also fouling might be the culprit.   I have not tried new ammo with flat base bullets yet but I did sit down to a serious cleaning session.   Two days in with Bench Rest copper solvent and I am still removing a lot of green and black crud.  I will let you know if this helps.  I would appreciate any other thoughts on this as I am still new to the SMLE.   Thanks!
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Ed Hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2010 at 5:53am
One of my #4s hates the boat tail Privi, the other is OK.  You don't say where you are, but the Wolf Gold with a flat based bullet shoots well and is readily available in the U.S.

Ed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2010 at 6:14am
Try flat base after a good deep cleaning. #4 mk1* may be a 2-groove barrel & they are well known for hating boat-tail bullets.
PitBull, spawn of Rottie!
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chucklz480 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chucklz480 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2010 at 6:36am
Thanks Ed,  I am in the US and will try the Wolf Gold.   Shamu, it does indeed appear I have a 2 groove barrel.  I will keep cleaning and if that does not help, try the other bullets.  I will post when I have more range results.   Thanks again!
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hoadie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2010 at 9:41am
I shoot the same ammo manufacture in my #1 Mk III's, with no problems.Then again I have 4 groove.
I note my No5 doest seem to like 'em
You have a Longbranch there,Chucklz?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2010 at 10:25am
I think what I have experienced with my M1917 may be of value.  I did a build starting with a action I found at a gunshow. Through a great act of fourtune  I found an unissued two groove Johnson Arms replacement barrel in the factory wrap. When I first started shooting it I got fantastic results with 168 boatails  2" group at 200 yards. However after about 300 rounds through it I noticed the accuracy with boatails had greatly degraded.  (5"  groups at 100 yards) I have switched to 165 gr and 180 gr flat based bullets and  there is no problem with them. 
Have a Nice Day
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chucklz480 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chucklz480 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2010 at 10:52am
Hoadie,
             Nope.  Its a Savage with U.S. Property marks.  It was given to me so the price was right on.Smile   Been kind of intrigued with SMLEs ever since.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2010 at 11:40am
often the shooting helps with the cleaning , and ive heard that you can end up with a very accurate rifle ,

congrats on a very nice rifle
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chucklz480 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chucklz480 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2010 at 3:25pm
Hmmmmm.   Shoot then clean then shoot and clean repeat as necessary.   thats a prescription I will enjoy following.   Will try to post some pix if I can figure that out.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2010 at 8:50pm
It may help if you use some bore foam. Squirt it down the barrel from the breech until the barrel is full then stand the rifle muzzle down in a small plastic tray and leave overnight. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2010 at 8:38am
I had heavy deposits of nickel in the barrel of a #4 Mk2 I bought years ago. Sweets over a period of a couple weeks got the stuff out, leaving a like new bore. Hornady's 0.312 150 gr bullet is an excellent choice for targets and hunting if you reload.
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chucklz480 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chucklz480 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2010 at 2:29pm
Ugh!   The cleaning process continues!   I have been using Hoppes Bench Rest copper solvent  endlessly.   The blue-green gunk just keeps coming.   They must have not had proper solvents to remove metal fouling in the 1940's.  I will keep it up until it's clean.  I hope to have a good shooter in the end.   While cleaning I noticed that the serial numbers all matched on the rifle, the bolt and the magazine.   Is it unusual to find a specimen like this or were these parts not replacede often?   Just wondering.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LE Owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2010 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by chucklz480 chucklz480 wrote:

Ugh!   The cleaning process continues!   I have been using Hoppes Bench Rest copper solvent  endlessly.   The blue-green gunk just keeps coming.   They must have not had proper solvents to remove metal fouling in the 1940's.  I will keep it up until it's clean.  I hope to have a good shooter in the end.   While cleaning I noticed that the serial numbers all matched on the rifle, the bolt and the magazine.   Is it unusual to find a specimen like this or were these parts not replacede often?   Just wondering.
Soldiers were discouraged from trying to remove metal fouling, as it was ham handed cleaning practices destroyed far more barrels than wear and erosion ever did.
 
If metal fouling built up to the point that it was easily noticed in regular inspections the rifle would be turned over to a non com and either he or an armorer would deal with it.
 
Extremely strong solvents were available, but these were not only poisonous but if used improperly could etch the steel of the bore where solvent levels met air.
 
A badly metal fouled barrel would be plugged at the chamber then a rubber tube strecthed over the muzzle, which in the case of the SMLE meant removing the nose cap.
The solvent, which was mixed in batches just before use, would be pured down the tube till the level was above the muzzle to prevent an air/solvent interface which would etch a tide line in the bore.
 
It was not unusual for a freshly cleaned bore to be less accurate than it had been before cleaning.
 
British target shooters often used mildly abrasive polishing pastes to remove metal fouling from their .303 rifles.
JB Bore Paste usually does a good job on old metal fouling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dogngun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2010 at 12:45am
I'm new here, but not to SMLE's - I have 2 right now, working on a '43 Ishapore that someone "improved" many years ago...I have had several Enfields that just never seemed to get really clean - there was so much stuff in there, I never got a clean patch out of them, but I have never had one that was a poor shooter, even the one with a ringed bore...Try a foam cleaner, try other things besides Hoppe's...Lately, I have been spraying the bore with CLP and leaving it stand for a day or two...amazing colors of stuff come out on tha patches after that! Th bore on my newest Ishy looked good in the shop, but it just keeps throwing off stuff after 3 days of spraying, brushing and patching...But I'm in no hurry.
 
Good luck!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dogngun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2010 at 3:38am
Just adding to my post on bore cleaning - Outers makes a good foaming bore cleaner - spray into the bore till it comes out the muzzle end, let it sit for a half hour or so - it will turn colors as it leaches copper from the bore. Jus tremove with clean patches, oil lightly afterwards.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2010 at 5:08am
I can concur with dogngun about the Outers foaming bore cleaner. It is really good stuff, very effective on copper fouling.
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