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No4 mk1* Help please.

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BlackflyCanada View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 23 2017 at 9:22pm
he!!o everyone, and I just wanna thank you in advance for all your help and time. This is my first time on the forums and I rarely use them so please be patient with me as I don't know the ins and outs of forum use.

I went to a gun show last weekend and picked up my first unspoiled Enfield and may have bitten off more than I can chew at the moment and would really appreciate any help. I am trying to build a World War 2 collection of battle rifles used by the different countries that fought in the war
and thought this would make a great addition to my collection.

I had a friend take a look at it, and he said it could very well be a competition rifle. I didn't know they existed, I had believed that pretty much every rifle was needed to fight the war. So when I seen this rifle and the condition it was in for the age it is, I figured I had found a rare gem, and bought it. But looking into it more, I'm having more questions than answers.

So without getting too long winded, I got this 1943 No4 mk1* Long Branch and I'm hoping you guys can give me details on what it is.





Is this a sight used for competition or target shooting? My buddy said that it's not a sight that would have been issued for fighting.


This is the serial number is matching on every part I can see.


These are stamped just behind the trigger guard.




These are stamped on the bottom of the forend near the front sight.


This is the front sight cap


My buddy also mentioned this knurling wouldn't have been done on a normal service rifle.


Serial for the mag.


If this is a competition rifle, why have bayonet lugs?


Stamped on the metal ring holding the wood bits together.


Aluminum butt plate. My other sported No1 Mk3 has a brass butt plate. Also should note it has the original cleaning kit that appears to be unused. 




It's really hard to see, but this rifle also seems to have a very slow single rifling on the bore, and should be noted that it is like a mirror as I can see the reflection of dark objects like trees against the bright sky. I counted 5 twists total over the length of the bore if you start where the grove begins. Also I noticed the lands are about twice the width of that on my mk3.


The overall condition of the rifle seems like it's factory fresh, there is a slight 3" scratch on the butt and one of the wood grooves on the forend is chipped, but other than that I can find no real defects on this rifle. Thanks again for any insight on this. I am very pleased with my find, and hope you guys enjoy seeing it. It will definitely be babied and I doubt very much that I will fire this rifle.
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Stanforth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stanforth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2017 at 1:33am
There will be far more knowlegable people along to help you. But to get you started. Your rifle looks, to me, to be a standard No.4 Mk1* with an aftermarket Parker Hale target sight fitted.
We used to see these used as the standard target rifle at Bisley years ago.
 
A nice looking rifle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pukka Bundook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2017 at 5:20am
Very nice rifle indeed!
Set up for range work as Stanforth said.
Rifles for military match have to be set up as per military specs, and that includes a bayonet lug.
For target shooting, none of the military specs have an adverse effect.
The knurled fore-sight protector is standard, but certainly not the P-H 5C sight!
That is a very nice addition!
The twist should be 1~10"  so may look slow compared to some.   5 groove barrel is very nice. War -time were often 2 groove.
At that time, the alloy buttplate was very common.
 
Congrats!,
Richard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2017 at 5:43am
The P-H sight is worth almost as much as the rifle!

That's a serious looking match rifle from the 60's. "Back in the day" I used one almost identical to it. We could shoot out to 1,000 yds with that iron sight setup.

You may find it has some unknown (hidden) internal mods to make it more accurate. Many were hand fitted internally & modified quite a lot (also internally) for accuracy at target matches. Mods were allowed, but, they had to be non-visible as it was supposed to be a service rifle competition & the guns had to look authentic (somehow the giant micrometer target sights were quietly ignored in all this "authenticity")!

The AJP front sight cover is also almost certainly collectable as well.
If you wanted to (I wouldn't, I'd keep it as is because its a very nice match gun) you could retro fit it back to service condition very simply as most of the competition improvements were just bolt on. You could sell the P-H #5 to finance the bits you'd need to de-convert it & have cash  left over for ammo.
Evil Smile
p.s. the butt plate isn't ally, but a zinc alloy called Zamak.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MJ11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2017 at 7:40am
Clean rifle ad a big well done on finding it.

I would not change anything and keep and use it just as is.

ENJOY !


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Zed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2017 at 11:52am
That is a beautiful No4 Mk1* which is now in Target spec for the Modified Service Rifle class. (well that's what it would be used for in Europe). It is also WWII manufacture, so may have been refurbished, or posssibly not in the front line. The condition is lovely.
I would not change a thing; just cherish it and shoot it. Maybe enter a few competitions if it shoot's as good as it look's!
Start off with some PPU 174 grain factory ammo, then keep the brass and work on some hand load's to tune the load to the rifle. It can make a surprising improvement to the accuracy.

Welcome to the Forum, Zed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackflyCanada Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2017 at 6:49pm
Wow guys thank you all very much for the replies. After doing a little blind digging around and reading, I was worried that I might have made a mistake, but you all have removed any doubt, and I thank you for that.

One more question, I noticed some of you mentioned shooting the rifle. I am really into the collecting, but also enjoy shooting my guns. This one, being in the condition it is in gave me pause on weather or not I should shoot it, or just keep it to enjoy. The bore is soo clean, it's sharper than my new Tikka 22-250. Would light shooting of this rifle lower the value? I did pay a pretty penny to get it, but aside from a little doubt about what the rifle is, I've had no buyers remorse.

Also I was told that the C stamped on the underside of the forend means the rifle is intended for competition use, is there any truth to that?

Anyways, thank you all again for your time and positive comments. This is an awesome community.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2017 at 8:16pm
im with MJ11 here , that is a super rifle in traditional target setup , dont change a thing just enjoy it for all it was made for 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2017 at 6:31am
don't know about the "C" marking, but its very possible that there has been a lot of "accurizing" (regulation) done to the rifle.

As far as shooting it go right ahead. If its been fired before then you won't do any harm shooting it. Unfired is worth more than fired, but fired is fired there's no difference between "fired a little bit" & just "fired".

Try the Prvi Prtizan ammo its good stuff & keep the brass in case you decide to reload later.
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Stanforth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stanforth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2017 at 9:55am
Someone hasn't been to the trouble of fitting those sights for it 'not to have been fired'.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2017 at 10:14am
That would be my thoughts as well.
Look at the bolt face, if there's a ring about the diameter of a primer its fired. Now look at the feed ramp in the breech & the magazine follower. If they are marked at all with brass kisses or "skid marks" its been fired.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2017 at 7:07pm
it has been shot period - that said it is a superb rifle , 
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