Enfield-Rifles.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Enfields > Enfield Bayonets
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Please Help Me With This Bayonet...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Please Help Me With This Bayonet...

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Attican View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: November 30 2011
Location: London, Ontario
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Attican Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Please Help Me With This Bayonet...
    Posted: November 30 2011 at 2:12pm
Hello a guy over on the axis history forums said I should come here to ask about my bayonet

I was recently given this by my dad passed down from his grandfather, apparently my dad had never looked closely at it because he thought it was a German bayonet and well... it wasnt

From what I found out on the axis history forum its a British Model 1907 W/Hooked Guard and possibly the original scabbard which my Great grandpa picked up somewhere.

Anyways im just curious about its origins and if possible roughly what it would be worth? Im not interested in selling it but like I said im just curious.

Here are some pictures of the bayonet and its scabbard.







Scabbard




So if any of you could tell me anything about it ide be much obliged :)

Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Attican View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: November 30 2011
Location: London, Ontario
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Attican Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2011 at 5:29am
disregard this post apparently the forum does have an edit button I just didnt see it.Confused


Back to Top
Bloodwyn View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: November 29 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 59
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bloodwyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2011 at 6:26am

The arrow for lack of a better term is the government acceptance mark the X is referred to as the “bending mark” proof of blade. It is hard to make out the pattern above the 15 and the 36 but it looks like the mark used to downgrade the blade to drill service. Sorry don’t know what the 15 and 36 means but it may indicate two different issues 15 = 15 Foot / The East Yorkshire Regiment. 36 = 36 Foot/ The Worcestershire Regiment (2nd Battalion) is there an EY or WR on the opposite side? The E under the 36 I think is an “Enfield   inspection mark. What ever its origin it is a legitimate SMLE bayonet and with that hooked quillion it is of the higher priced blood line. The proof marks on the hilt of the blade are the important ones. Show the other side.

This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave. ~Elmer Davis~ I go armed at all times and shoot where I find it necessary as I am an American. ~Bloodwyn~

Back to Top
Bloodwyn View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: November 29 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 59
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bloodwyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2011 at 6:37am

Oh, there I go again….I’m going to need new glasses…..I see the other side is posted. (beerhunter’s going to frag me now) I can only make out the “D” on the top picture. Can you read what the other two digits are Attican?

This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave. ~Elmer Davis~ I go armed at all times and shoot where I find it necessary as I am an American. ~Bloodwyn~

Back to Top
Attican View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: November 30 2011
Location: London, Ontario
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Attican Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2011 at 6:50am
Originally posted by Bloodwyn Bloodwyn wrote:

Oh, there I go again….I’m going to need new glasses…..I see the other side is posted. (beerhunter’s going to frag me now) I can only make out the “D” on the top picture. Can you read what the other two digits are Attican?




Umm to me it looks like either FED or EFD or FFD

Thanks for the info Bloodwyn :)
Back to Top
Attican View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: November 30 2011
Location: London, Ontario
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Attican Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2011 at 8:18am
Also I have a question any chance someone could put a value on this?

Ive seen them going online for a fair bit of money

http://www.ima-usa.com/british-p-1907-first-model-hooked-quillon-bayonet-earliest-scabbard.html

and http://www.ima-usa.com/p-1907-hooked-quillon-s-m-l-e-bayonet-w-1st-model-scabbard-one-only.html

I dont expect that or anything and im assuming those two examples are vastly overpriced but if I ever do want to sell it be good to know.
Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7391
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2011 at 10:21am
your bayonet does indeed appear to be a rare P1907 hooked quillon bayonet , looks to be 12/09 vintage and that fits , i need to look more closely about some other details but it was made at enfeild [EFD] that fits and it appears to be marked ER [edward was king] and that also fits , my 1910 version of this was as well , it bothers me we cannot see the crown and other marks ,
 
i cannot speak to the unit marks - my referances are not at hand ,
 
the scabbord is not as old , we need to see more of it to tell more , the IMA-USA photos show what a correct scabbord tip would look like , mines WWI but not that type either , these are as rare as the bayo , and very spendy , yours could be either WWI or WWII cant tell without more photos ,
 
but it could have been with this blade later in life as the bayo seems to have been refurbed in '14 , the hook would not have been removed at that date , but the '35 bothers me a bit ,
 
hooks were cut off after '15 , very few survived and those that do are valuable , i wont part with mine for less than $750 if i should decide to sell , its in better condition than yours but you still have a valuable piece , $500-600 ?
 
beware these are faked .........if you would buy one from IMA-USA its a fake , they have photos of a real one but they do not have any for sale ,
Back to Top
Attican View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: November 30 2011
Location: London, Ontario
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Attican Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2011 at 11:35am
I have a question

What does the

3.ST.
 91

on the handle stand for?
Back to Top
Bloodwyn View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: November 29 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 59
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bloodwyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2011 at 11:04pm

My research indicates ST = 13 Foot- Prince Albert's (Somerset Light Infantry) after 1881 If it was 3 MD it would mean 3rd Military District (Victoria) for an Australian Bayonet. 91 could indicate 91st Foot Princess Louise's (Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders) the bluing left on the Ricasso might indicate an original Australia issue. These blades are rock solid and due I think too consistent enforcement of British Empire reg’s the bayonets were well cared for in the field and seem to have suffered mostly while in civilian hands so they were more often then not cleaned and reissued with new proof marks along side the originals right up until the rifle design itself was decommissioned. You will have to spend time with your own research too really nail down the origin and meanings of the marks as they all seem at least slightly different from one another. Good luck.

This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave. ~Elmer Davis~ I go armed at all times and shoot where I find it necessary as I am an American. ~Bloodwyn~

Back to Top
Attican View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: November 30 2011
Location: London, Ontario
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Attican Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2011 at 4:57am
"suffered mostly while in civilian hands"

Yea I yelled at my dad a bit yesterday for keeping it in a box in his garage for 20 years Pinch

"

hooks were cut off after '15 , very few survived and those that do are valuable , i wont part with mine for less than $750 if i should decide to sell , its in better condition than yours but you still have a valuable piece , $500-600 ?"

I have a question is it possible to clean some of the grime off without damaging the blade? and would that make it more valuable in any way?

Im thinking of selling it now just because I could use the money to buy some German militaria from a private collector in my city whos selling basically everything he has.
Back to Top
fred toddd View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: September 22 2011
Location: england
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fred toddd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2011 at 3:39am
notice it has not been cut (Quinlan), also tear drop on scabbard, rather than the later round type.  you have a rather rare complete unit. did not notice has it been drilled in the metal part with the sprung clip. no modification to allow dirt etc' to be cleaned from grove
Frederik john Todd
Back to Top
Bloodwyn View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: November 29 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 59
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bloodwyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2011 at 9:01am

You may want to PM the member ASquare in this thread; He has some beautiful blades and may want it for himself. He is at least likely to offer a selling tip.

This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave. ~Elmer Davis~ I go armed at all times and shoot where I find it necessary as I am an American. ~Bloodwyn~

Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7391
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2011 at 11:52am
i did not get the impression he was selling , i thought asking info , i note it has not been drilled with the clearing hole , hence my thought it was real [along with other info] but im not in the market , i have one ,
 
i also would like to suggest that very little "cleaning" be done , you will loose value rather than gain it , these are very rare , and even in the condition yours is in valuable , i would only do what is required to arrest any future deterioration at this point ,
 
my referances on markings are not at hand and ill admitt thats not my area of expertise , there are those that seriously study that area that can help more than i can , i only recently learned in depth about the markings on mine ,
Back to Top
Attican View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: November 30 2011
Location: London, Ontario
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Attican Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2011 at 12:15pm
Correct im not really sure if I want to sell it yet or not and If I do It would probably be local for cash.

And as for the cleaning thanks for the info good to know I will just leave it as is and if I ever sell it too someone who complains about it looking dirty I will tell him once you buy it you can clean it yourself :P



Back to Top
Bloodwyn View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: November 29 2011
Location: U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 59
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bloodwyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2011 at 9:43pm
Originally posted by Attican Attican wrote:

Im thinking of selling it now just because I could use the money to buy some German militaria from a private collector in my city whos selling basically everything he has.

Sorry, this post reads like you want to sell it.

 

If I had a blade (for what my opinion is worth…nothing I’m sure but I cant seem to stop myself from answering.) and it was that valuable, I would sell it unless I had the model rifle it was meant to be mounted on. But that’s just me, I might keep a sword and display it but if I have a rifle that accepts a bayonet I am compelled to find the bayonet and if I owned a bayonet and it was valuable in some way: Sentimental (I would find the appropriate rifle) Monetary (I would likely sell it and use the money for ammo or another gun)…whatever was at the top of the list at that time.

This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave. ~Elmer Davis~ I go armed at all times and shoot where I find it necessary as I am an American. ~Bloodwyn~

Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7391
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2011 at 9:08am
im like you bloodwyn , i buy the accoutramnents to go with my collector rifles and ive bought a rifle to go with a collector bayo , i cant help it its a quirk of character  , 
 
 
 
im still looking for one of these to fit my revolver [actually have two - enfeild & webley mkVI]
****note this is a borrowed photo - i did not take it ****
 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.05
Copyright ©2001-2016 Web Wiz Ltd.