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Changes to SA Licenses

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Topic: Changes to SA Licenses
Posted By: DairyFarmer
Subject: Changes to SA Licenses
Date Posted: February 09 2016 at 7:05pm
The SAPS issued a new directive on Monday 8 Feb 2016 to DFO's.
 
You may no longer submit a competency application and license application at the same time. You have the following options:
 
If you hold a valid competency for the class of firearm then you can submit a license application.
If you are renewing both competency and license you may do them at the same time.
If you are applying for a new competency (i.e. a class you don't hold) you must submit this first. Once obtained you can then apply for the firearm license.
 
Basically add another 3 months to your application. I suggest that if you are going through the effort to get a competency, why not just do them all in one go (handgun, rifle, shotgun and semi). They should all come on one certificate. Now you will be able to apply for firearm licenses in any class and it will only take the normal? 3-4 months.
 
Please don't forget to check the expiry dates on you licenses. Hand in your renewal at least 90 days before expiry or you application for renewal will be rejected and you will have to do a new license application.


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If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it.



Replies:
Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: February 09 2016 at 7:26pm
That sounds stricter than Canadian firearm laws!


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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: SW28fan
Date Posted: February 09 2016 at 7:52pm
Thank God I live in Texas

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Have a Nice Day
If already having a nice day please disregard


Posted By: ikesdad
Date Posted: February 10 2016 at 6:57am
And I thought the recent changes in Colorado law sucked.
That's about as screwed up as a football bat.


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Pro Deo et Patria


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 10 2016 at 7:28am
Wow its Maryland-on-the-limpopo!Angry


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: February 10 2016 at 8:48am
You need to move to North Carolina and be free.

Does not appy to Hoadie.

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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 10 2016 at 9:42am
Arkansas!
All I gotta do is convince the Mrs.
Evil Smile


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: February 10 2016 at 3:39pm
im thinking northern arkansas as well ........for now glad im here in the "shall issue" state where thats all i have to renew every five years , 


Posted By: DairyFarmer
Date Posted: February 10 2016 at 8:35pm
In the not so old days you could before the magistrate and request a license for a firearm. Unbelievably back then, even with the race laws, this meant anyone.
 
Now its the good old "hurry up and wait" system. All they have to do is check that you have completed training at a registered facility, check you are not on the system as a criminal, check the reason you want the firearm, check that you have a safe, check the firearm is legal, issue the license.
 
Imagine the chaos when a crime involving a firearm is investigated. It must, literally, take months, even years, just to find out who owns the firearm.


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If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: February 10 2016 at 8:46pm
and in the mean time all criminals go about their business as usual - fully armed with all of the illegal weapons they can get their hands on - but your country is so safe because they regulate you , 

governments have always sought to disarm the public in the best interest of all , they have always turned a blind eye to criminals and terrorists because they know they cannot control that element 


Posted By: DairyFarmer
Date Posted: February 11 2016 at 3:58am
Because it is too "hard" for them to stop the criminals, they shift the focus to the people they can control. They can then say that they are doing something about "gun control". Are not a lot more people not injured or killed on the job than by firearms? Does anyone think health and safety needs to be stricter? Do we have people demonstrating for stricter health and safety? How about the total ban on all hand tools? They are easy to conceal and, shock of all shocks, young kids are known to have unsupervised access to them, even in school!

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If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it.


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: February 11 2016 at 4:00am
After the terror attacks in France last year the gouvernment announced plans to restrict importations of arms.
 I have personally legally imported a couple over the last few years and can state that the proper system is well regulated as is.
Plus the fact that all the arms used in the attacks were 100% Illegal! it's just another attempt to kill the sport. The only people that will benefit is the terrorists as they know that no one can legally defend themselves.
To think that in the past shooting was promoted for the good of the country; and the fact that it has helped when recruiting in emergencies such as the two world wars has been completely forgotten by modern politicians who prefer to keep their heads where the sun don't shine!


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 11 2016 at 5:25am
"im thinking northern arkansas as well"
You might want to do some more research on that. I know people Baxter CO & they are having some problems with retirees from Illinois moving in, driving property values up &  trying to recreate Chicago in the Ozarks.



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: ArcherSix
Date Posted: February 11 2016 at 8:06am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

I know people Baxter CO & they are having some problems with retirees from Illinois moving in, driving property values up &  trying to recreate Chicago in the Ozarks.

 
That's what happened to Aspen, Co & the Texas hill country. Maybe not people from Illinois, but you know...not all of us are from Chicago!  LOL


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: February 11 2016 at 8:34pm
thank you - you just confirmed my take on gun control - its all BS , they can remove every gun from every law abiding citizens possession , and in the end the terrorists and criminals will still have them - often provided by our own governments to impose their crimes upon us , 

and .. our governments will then want to try them in our courts of law and give them all sorts of rights that they would and have denied us of , but they sure want to treat these criminals with kidd gloves while taking our rights away , 

kinda makes you wonder why we support governments we have dont it ? you remember reading about the american colonies rebellion to the crown ? 
then our civil discussion ? 
you aint seen nothin yet , 


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: February 12 2016 at 4:16am
The last few years has seen an increase in membership at our gun club. The sport is attracting more people without any publicity from the clubs. I hope that it's people who are genuinly interested and want to participate in the sport; as that is the only legal use of firearms in France.

However I think that the sport should be returned to the school curriculum as well; because proper education about firearms would have multiple benefits.  Reduce the number of stupid accidents. Allow people to understand what weapons can and cannot do so if faced with a terrorist or criminal act; they have some clue as to what to do to regarding making a weapon safe, our knowing what will give safe cover if hiding etc.


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: DairyFarmer
Date Posted: February 12 2016 at 5:41am
I think that every firearm educated, law abiding person should be allowed what ever firearm and what ever quantity they desire. Just like vehicles, they should be registered in that person's name. At any point the law may require a person to account for every firearm registered in their name. All second hand firearm sales should be done through an vetting agent (much like a house sale). Penalties for breaching the laws should be server, with most second offences attracting mandatory jail time. 

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If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 12 2016 at 6:54am
Thank god you aren't in America!



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: DairyFarmer
Date Posted: February 12 2016 at 7:02pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Thank god you aren't in America!

Why?
 
Firearms should be like vehicles.
 
The driver is licensed to operate a class of vehicle.
A vehicle is licensed to a person.
 
If you commit minor offences you get fined. If you commit enough minor offences you go to court. i.e. parking tickets. If you commit a major offence you go to court or jail. i.e drunk driving. If you are caught drunk but haven't directly endangered someone the its a fine or jail. Being caught a second time being drunk should be automatic jail and license revoked. You had your chance and warning, next time you could have hurt someone.
 
I believe that it is every firearm owner's responsibility to know what they are doing and where there firearms are at all times. If they are not in direct control of their firearm it should be secured so that an uneducated person cannot access it. I have no sympathy for a people who's firearms have got into the wrong hands because they didn't secure them and something happens. i.e. leaving a handgun and ammo in a shoe box in the cupboard and a child gets hold of it. People like that do not deserve to be firearm owners. If the firearm is in a safe or chained up and someone has to used brute force to get access to it, then you have taken reasonable steps to secure the firearm and therefore not negligent. If a criminal wants something he will get it no matter how well you safe guard it.
 
 
 
 


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If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it.


Posted By: DairyFarmer
Date Posted: February 12 2016 at 7:28pm
A further development in licensing:
 
Renewals need to be handed in AT LEAST 90 days prior to expiry. SAPS will need a strong motivation if you apply for renewal later than that. If the license has expired then you had problems. The firearm needs to be handed in. If you are caught with an unlicensed firearm its 15years mandatory.
 
This applies to the new licenses (white cards) only. Green licenses are still valid but time is running out on them and you need to convert them to the new white licenses ASAP.
 
If you have applied for a renewal, carry a certified copy or the renewal with your firearm. If you get stopped you can prove, on the spot, that you have complied with the Act and shouldn't end up arrested. Rather not carry that firearm is you don't have to. The cops are quick to arrest and ask questions later. You could end up spending the weekend in jail, and all that comes with that. The directives regarding firearms as so complicated and change almost monthly. Most DFO's haven't a clue, let along the cop who's last exposure to the FCA was when he did basics 10 years ago.


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If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it.


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: February 12 2016 at 9:15pm
Jeepers, that's TOUGH!

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: February 12 2016 at 11:14pm
we still supposedly have the 'right' to unfettered possession as our constitution "says - congress shall make no law" , but somehow congress has forgotten why that amendment was installed as the second - to protect the first and all others - unfortunately also the 16th 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 13 2016 at 4:35am
As long as you accept the kind of drivel you're being put through while complaining about it you're an accomplice to the creation of the drivel.
Its actually scary how many people enjoy being sheep!


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: DairyFarmer
Date Posted: February 13 2016 at 4:50am

Sometimes you just have to bend and take it  .... and say thank you sir, may I have some more. The reality of living under various political climates. I tow the line because I need my firearms to protect my family.

Quote Acknowledging the lack of sufficient data, the leading South African authority on crime research, the Institute for Security Studies, made a conservative calculation in 2012, which put the level of farm murders at 98,8 per 100 000 murders per annum. In 2013, the number was recalculated, using newer data. The number was put at 120 per 100 000 per year. It is noteworthy that the number of murders on farmers is more than twice as high as the murder rate of police officials in South Africa, which is put at 54 per 100 000 per year. This is already more than four times the South African murder average, which is one of the highest in the world at 31 per 100 000 per year, and 17 times the world murder average, which is put at about 7 per 100 000 per year.
Source: A report to the United Nations’ Forum for Minority Affairs 26 – 27 November 2013 Compiled by Ernst Roets, deputy CEO of AfriForum
 
If anyone is interested I've attached the full document in pdf. A "good" read.
uploads/3552/Report-to-the-United-Nations1.pdf" rel="nofollow - uploads/3552/Report-to-the-United-Nations1.pdf


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If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 13 2016 at 4:13pm
Not only NO!
But he!! NO!
If you don't stand up for yourself who will respect you enough to do it for you?


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: DairyFarmer
Date Posted: February 13 2016 at 6:43pm

Hard to stand up when the government, seeing farm attacks increase in 2007, decide that they will no longer separate statistics on farm murders from other murders in an effort to draw the focus away from a situation that was getting worse and that they had no way of making better, after they had removed some safeguards that were in place but under the control of the citizens and not them.



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If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 14 2016 at 7:18am
No-one ever said it would be easy. Sometimes the right thing to do isn't the easy thing to do. That's when you separate the wheat from the chaff!

We're almost at that point here in the U.S. unfortunately.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: February 14 2016 at 9:24am
sadly shamu is correct , there is a lot happening here that i thought could never occur - 

preference in government for islam in the name of 'inclusion' and at the same time eradication of our founding christianity from the same entity , under the pretense of our separation of church and state - which simply guarantees the "freedom of religion" by the way , by stating that our government cannot select/impose a religion for the populace , 

we are being oppressed by "political correctness" which seeks to stifle our use of words that some dont want to here in direct violation of our first amendment rights , we no longer can say our pledge of allegiance in schools , fly our flag - sometimes outside our own homes , which i consider an intolerable anti-patriot attack from within by those that want to kill this country as founded ,  

there is a faction of the population that wants to take our guns in direct violation of the second amendment , the laws currently in force in this country are in direct violation [all of them] as the amendment states "congress shall make NO LAW" but we have accepted some restrictions [automatic weapons] and background checks with public interest in mind , but the incrementalist attack will never cease till those that want to take away the second succeed in their mission - so we will fight back 

im in favor of repealing the 16th that allows our government to tax us , that might slow the attacks for a time by defunding those that are pushing for this agenda , 

and then there is my heartfelt feeling that the 'democrat' party - the party of kennedy - that i once knew as a righteous one , i belive it has been taken over by the communists - ive said repeatedly it started in the late 60s , after kennedy was killed , when johnson ran it to ground with government programs , 
i never believed it to be possible in this country for the communist party to be anything but a token political entity , let alone seriously run for office and actually be scoring points on its journey , yet sanders [who can call himself a socialist - to try to conceal what is well known] a communist may actually be able get the democrat endorsement which will solidify my contention . 
our educational system , run by liberal/progressive/socialist/commies , has succeeded in brain washing the youth , in my youth commies were the enemy , today they are my neighbors [figuratively speaking as im in a very conservative area of this liberal state] and they are voting - their "right to be sure" and i am wondering where the sanity has gone and where it will all lead , 

im not pretending to speak for anyone else here at all , im speaking for myself , the other americans here as well as those that live here after coming from somewhere else all still have their first amendment right to speak for themselves [im all ears folks - let me hear your thoughts - i can always learn something new , even at my age] 

ive said this before on other sites - i know we are being monitored - but this whole situation of oppression of our rights and consumption of our country will result in some kind or revolt eventually , 

my prediction of the worst case occurs at an obscure bridge - and the world will little note nor long remember , 

those of you that know our history understand what i just said , those that dont might want to read a little - its more than our children get today , they know not of what i speak ..........

in contemporary speech  - they may find my dead body in a muddy ditch , but ill be buried in brass , 








Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: February 15 2016 at 11:59am
Seeing some of the candidates for the presidency; I'd be worried if I lived in the States. 
Maybe someone on your side of the pond can explain why in a democracy; it seems only very rich people get to play president? 
When it is highly likely that the most capable person to run the country is probably some small town teacher thats so poor that he would never be allowed into "politics"


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 15 2016 at 1:27pm
The thing is that America is a democracy in name, but not in fact. Its primarily a Republic, that was led by a democratic process.

I was privileged to know a celebrity through his online persona on a couple of forums. Although well known he preferred to be anonymous in many of his activities, he always said if you figured out who he was & PM'd him he'd admit it in private as long as you never revealed the information publicly.
He had a good turn of phrase that sums the current situation up very well even though he's no longer alive.

“Americans talk a lot about the value of freedom, but are actually afraid of anyone who truly exhibits it”.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: DairyFarmer
Date Posted: February 15 2016 at 7:01pm
Like most countries, the president is just the face of the party. They are normally in the below average intelligence bracket. They do what the party wants them to do. The party, in turn, is funded by people who have an interest in which direction decisions will go. Its just short of the president having sponsorship logos on his suite.

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If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it.


Posted By: ikesdad
Date Posted: February 15 2016 at 9:34pm
Guys, I have an insight to what has been happening in DF's neck of the woods. He lives in a whole different neighborhood than the rest of us......since 1994.
Almost like waking up in the projects everyday.


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Pro Deo et Patria


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 16 2016 at 4:44am
The entire election process here, particularly the presidential side of it is a giant multi-stage filter.
You shove random politicians in one end & a standardized composite mush comes out the other.Pig


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: February 16 2016 at 8:05pm
i see where you might get that idea , it does seem to be the normal perception of things and particularly with the last half dozen election cycles or so , 

this one is interesting because the media has not been able to control/manipulate it as they have in the past and the standard issue is not the norm - those that are , not doing so well thus far , if for no other reason than the standard coronation is not working this time - im having fun with it , particularly the media show of losing control - they have always felt themselves so powerful and in control of our elections , 

i still wont make a prediction - the two parties are still infighting after all , the real debates start when the candidates are determined , i enjoy that more , 


Posted By: Pedro
Date Posted: February 21 2016 at 5:11pm
I've got to say I don't really understand American politics much. It seems to me that candidates spend more time campaigning than actually being in office and doing anything. Then the incumbent (who presumably got the most votes) spends his time in office growing less and less popular with everyone.
As for firearms law, just don't get me started!! I live in the UK after all. 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 22 2016 at 5:48am
That's horribly close to the truth!
It's a multi-stage 3-ring circus in many cases.
Star


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: February 22 2016 at 6:29pm
dont want them to do too much - they muck up most everything they do , 


Posted By: DairyFarmer
Date Posted: April 11 2016 at 8:32am
Latest from the lawyers at NSA.
 
If you originally got you license on the old system (green) and you haven't renewed on to the white then you license is still valid. Renew you license NOW. 
 
If you originally got you license on the old system (green) and you have renewed on to the white license and your white licence is expired or expiring in less than 90 days, your green license is still valid. The SAPS cannot order you to hand in your firearm, nor can they prosecute you. Renew you license NOW.
 
If you got your license the first time on the white license and it has expired or expiring in less than 90 days you are foul of the law. Go see your DFO ASAP. You will probably be asked to hand in the firearm.
 
The SAPS will close this loop hole as quickly as they can, so get your renewals done before 90 days. And get a receipt!
 
If you do a renewal, get a copy of the renewal from the DFO and have is certified. Carry this with the firearm. If you are stopped and found with a license that is expiring in less than 90 days, they WILL take give you hassles and may take your firearm and/or arrest you.


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If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: April 11 2016 at 4:46pm
damn glad our constitution forbids this , 


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: April 11 2016 at 9:13pm
A Sq: Not so sure..they keep challenging it..& one day, they will probably win(Cuz they keep at it)

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Norgrin
Date Posted: April 12 2016 at 12:39am
Originally posted by DairyFarmer DairyFarmer wrote:

Latest from the lawyers at NSA.
 
If you originally got you license on the old system (green) and you have renewed on to the white license and your white licence is expired or expiring in less than 90 days, your green license is still valid. The SAPS cannot order you to hand in your firearm, nor can they prosecute you. Renew you license NOW.
 


Just to add to the above:
This is only applies if You held onto Your Green licence and never handed it in when You got Your White
License.
Unfortunately My green cards got stolen when visiting Namibia a while back and My bags never arrived.
So I am bound By the laws of the White card.

I need to start the renewal process for my sidearm next month.
I am going to do it through Parow Arms.  I am not going to go through renewal again without a bit of help.
I do not need any issues with renewal as My 9mm is always with Me.


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I would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.


Posted By: DairyFarmer
Date Posted: April 12 2016 at 6:16am

It's not difficult to renew. If you have a nicely written motivation (lazy people pay R250 for someone to write it) and if you are a member of one of the shooting organisations they will give yyou an endorsement (basically telling SAPS that they must give you a license/renewal).

 
I went in to check on an application status for a new shotgun license. The DFO fiddled on the system. A few weeks later I got a call to come collect my licenses. I don't know what he did but my 9mm was renewed and one of my rifles was renewed (it still had 5 years left). I never submitted a single piece of paper. It saved me having to do the renewal this year for the 9mm.
 
The good thing is that renewals are done at provincial level not in Pretoria (unless you a Guatie). Not that it will take any quicker to do. If they moved any faster they would be out of a job.


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If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: April 12 2016 at 6:32pm
"..A Sq: Not so sure..they keep challenging it..& one day, they will probably win(Cuz they keep at it),,"

we have stood at an obscure bridge in the past thinking 'the world will little note nor long remember' then found it was the "shot heard round the world" 

do not underestimate the will of the people - too many of our politicians have - just sayin 


Posted By: Norgrin
Date Posted: April 12 2016 at 9:21pm
I hope I am as lucky as You with the renewal.
This is the first time I am doing a renewal since changing over to the white card.
I will contact the association I shoot for and ask them for an endorsement.


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I would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.


Posted By: DairyFarmer
Date Posted: April 13 2016 at 6:30am
I'm with NHSA. You write your motivation letter and email it to them. They look at it and if they are happy they send you an endorsement letter to hand in with your application/renewal. They won't give you an endorsement if they think your motivation is weak. SAPS are pretty much bound by the endorsement unless they have some compelling reason.
 
The renewal format is very much like the new license application. You should also fill in a SAPS 540 which allows for more than 200 rounds per Section 13 and Section 15 licenses. Section 16 and Section 16A licenses automatically allow for more than 200 rounds per license. handy for when you need to buy powder and primers in bulk too. You can add 4 licenses on one application.
 
Example: you got your shotgun under Section 15 (occasional hunter/sport shooter). On Saturday morning you go to the gun shop to buy some #7's to shoot some clays at the range. Normally you can get  a case (10 boxes of 25) at 10% off the box price. If the gun shop overlooks the quantity and sells you the case, you are foul of the law.


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If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it.


Posted By: Norgrin
Date Posted: April 13 2016 at 10:19pm
Thanks for the info DF.
This is a great help.
I am with the MSA so will email them today to get the ball rolling.


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I would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.


Posted By: DairyFarmer
Date Posted: April 14 2016 at 7:46am
Do you mean NSA?
 
If so, all you do is log in. From there you can apply for your endorsement. You can also get your membership certificate to attach to your application/renewal.


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If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it.


Posted By: Norgrin
Date Posted: April 14 2016 at 9:13pm
Nope. MSA. Milnerton Shooting Association.

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I would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.



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