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Ishapore 2A1 questions

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Ishapore Enfields
Forum Description: Let's see those Indian Enfields!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8180
Printed Date: February 22 2018 at 6:41pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Ishapore 2A1 questions
Posted By: 1187Shooter
Subject: Ishapore 2A1 questions
Date Posted: August 25 2016 at 7:49pm
I'm thinking about trading into a 1967 Ishapore 2A1... comes with sling,bayonet and a few rounds of ammo.
The bayonet does not match the rifle, he got it off of ebay after he got the rifle, I guess.
Are there any particulars to look out for in these rifles? Years to avoid, signs of abuse, excessive wear etc to watch for?
The markings on the bayonet are pretty worn, and it looks like it was painted green at one time. It doesn't have a scabbard.I don't know much about bayonets, I'm guessing this is a 1907 pattern? Other than that I haven't a clue what the few markings I can read mean...

The rifle looks to be in decent shape, a pretty typical specimen, I think. Numbers match, bore seems decent. Better than my No.4, anyway.

Another question I have is, what's the real scoop about shooting 308 Win out of one of these? I've seen/heard/read opinions on both sides of the fence... some folks say don't do it, never never,not ever, and others say that's all they've ever used in theirs, with no noticeable effects. I understand the fact that the chamber is a bit larger on the 7.62 military side, but what does that really mean to someone who doesn't shoot 100's of rounds in a session,and who is just getting into small scale reloading? (Lee hand press, etc.)
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Replies:
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: August 28 2016 at 8:02pm
what i know is the 2A1 has the calibrated sights - for military 762x51 , as to shooting 308 you will need to wait for the educated to step in , 

i had this and a 2A as well as an indian 303 and the 410 conversions in a past life time period , all performed well , i had no complaints of any of them , 
the bayonets are a whole nuthr story that would take a good bit of research and time , they purpose made them , the converted others - shortened , scrubbed , remarked , refurbished , if your looking for collectibles thats one thing what you have is correct and adequate , 


Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: August 29 2016 at 1:28am
303 conversions to 308 are ok IF you use lower pressured homeloads. You'll find the factory ammo goes way over pressure for the enfield reciever to cope with by something like 5000psi and eventually there'll be an accident.  Bisley the mecca for enfield shooters over here in the UK (to my knowledge) have banned 308 comercial ammo in converted 303s. A few years ago we had a guy on here who insisted it was safe to use comercial 308 in 303 conversions, he got so stroppy, abusive and adamant he was right I eventually booted him for safeties sake before somebody who didn't know any better ended up in hospital or worse.


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Rottie (PitBulls dad.)


“If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons

Born free taxed to death!!!



Posted By: 1187Shooter
Date Posted: August 29 2016 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by Tony Tony wrote:

303 conversions to 308 are ok IF you use lower pressured homeloads. You'll find the factory ammo goes way over pressure for the enfield reciever to cope with by something like 5000psi and eventually there'll be an accident.  Bisley the mecca for enfield shooters over here in the UK (to my knowledge) have banned 308 comercial ammo in converted 303s. A few years ago we had a guy on here who insisted it was safe to use comercial 308 in 303 conversions, he got so stroppy, abusive and adamant he was right I eventually booted him for safeties sake before somebody who didn't know any better ended up in hospital or worse.
 
This is the reason for my questions... as I understood it, the Ishapore rifles were redesigned for the 7.62 NATO cartridge, with better metallurgy etc. in order to withstand the higher pressure. I get that the converted .303 rifles would be less than ideal for running high volumes of .308 or 7.62 through, but then, on the other hand, a converted .308 would have a standard spec .308 chamber....
My question is concerning the difference between shooting standard 7.62x51 NATO ball ammo vs. commercial 308 Winchester hunting loads in the 7.62 military spec chambers. According to the SAAMI charts, from what I can tell, the actual pressures are pretty close if not the same, but the issue as I understand it is the larger chamber dimensions of the 7.62 Vs. standard 308 creates the hazard, not a difference in pressures between the two...
But I am unclear as to what that means to me, exactly. Would it matter so much to a shooter who is not reloading, and therefore only shooting any one particular cartridge a single time, never to be used again, as opposed to a reloader who is recycling brass over and over, eventually to fail due to excess stresses from constant resizing. I know brass doesn't last forever, but I'm guessing this would seriously reduce the life expectancy, depending on wall thickness etc. 
Is there really a physical difference in the case between .308 Win and 7.62 NATO?
Not sure if it really is going to matter this time around anyways, since I'm not sure I'm going to go through with this particular trade... still might pick one up later on though.


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: August 30 2016 at 12:42pm
One of my Enfield's is also 7,62 NATO. 
When I bought it I tested some .308 rounds through a Chronograph to compare to 7,62 NATO spec.
Velocities of the .308 are well above the NATO rounds; in the region of 300 feet per second depending on the type. Obviously it's not a good idea in view of the extra pressure being created get those speeds. 

However for reloading, I use components for .308 win,(plenty of choice) but load for NATO speeds of around 2700 ft/sec with 155 grain Sierra's. The components load and shoot well
I also tried some Lithuanian surplus 7,62 recently and it was very good value.



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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: 1187Shooter
Date Posted: August 31 2016 at 6:06am
How do your cases hold up after repeated use?
Is your Enfield a true (Ishapore etc.) 7.62 rifle or was it a converted .303?
 




Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: August 31 2016 at 9:02am
My Ishapore is a true Ishapore and the case hold up very well as long as I trim the and only shoot them in that Ishapore.

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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: August 31 2016 at 11:47am
My 7,62 is an L39a1, so I suspect the chamber is probably tighter than the Ishapore. But if you are using the brass in just one rifle, as Paddy has said. Should not be a problem.
I still have several rounds of the factory .308 ammo that I tested. Having seen the velocity of some of it; I will not be using it in my Lee Enfield. Despite the fact that some of the L39's in the UK have been re-proofed to 20 Tons per square inch, instead of the original 19 tons.


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: 1187Shooter
Date Posted: September 01 2016 at 10:32am
That's good to know. I have a 30-06 for big game hunting, and I don't hunt at ranges much over 200 yards anyways, so keeping the loads down to 7.62 levels is no problem. I've got some other references concerning case sizing and trimming when reloading .303 British, and I would think that similar procedures would apply here. 
I also don't anticipate picking up more than one rifle in either chambering, so that would remove that particular part of the equation.
Thanks for the help... I'll always take any I can get.





Posted By: locosmith
Date Posted: October 28 2017 at 11:06am
It's not the chamber you have to worry about. The ishy 7.62 was a redesigned piece. the commercial 308 has higher pressures then the 7.62 or the 303. The 308 up to and a little over 50000 cup, the 7.62 around 44000, this is + or - so the true 7.62 will shoot 7.62 x 51 nato no problems. the metal was changed for the 7.62. a 308 is commercial ammo loaded for higher pressure, they tried to make it compete with the 30 06, so don't shoot 308 in it. Then for sure no problems. Load your own and look at a loading manual and look up 308, 7.62 nato and you can see the difference. there are several sites on the net to look at.

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LocoSmith



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