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No4 with strange markings "greek"

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Topic: No4 with strange markings "greek"
Posted By: Rik
Subject: No4 with strange markings "greek"
Date Posted: December 26 2017 at 5:36am
he!!o Enfield enthusiasts!

For some time now i own a Lee Enfield No4 Mk1 rifle wich has for me some unkown markings. After some research online, it looks to be a 1943 Maltby produced No4 Mk1. And then there is this marking on the top off the receiver wich looks like "EK/SEOS" the only thing i could find online was someone says that possibly it could be used in the greek civil war. Is it possible that this rifle is never been used by the british military, or is the "greek" marking from later in his life? Is there someone who could explain some more of its history?

Greetings,

Rik

[IMG]uploads/5318/IMG_20171226_130123-



Replies:
Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: December 26 2017 at 7:59pm
Do not fire that rifle!!!
That has been drilled out between the barrel and receiver. Someone has welded the hole closed. If you have fired it,do not continue. It's a Maltby made rifle but someone made it a drill purpose rifle.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: December 26 2017 at 9:29pm
Problem number two.
That barrel is not indexed correctly and I noticed a second hole drilled behind the first one and welded over poorly.
The stampings on the receiver do not appear to indicate it was intended for Greek anything. I have a Maltby made rifle and my serial number is roughly 220+ more than yours. Mine,just like yours was originally distributed to the British army.
Again,and I cannot stress this enough,do not fire that rifle!!!


Posted By: SW28fan
Date Posted: December 26 2017 at 10:32pm
The Greeks Received a large number of Enfields of various flavors after WWII. Which is why HXP loaded 303 ammo.  I suspect it was made into a drill rifle or a Dewat for Collector sale.  In some parts of the world centerfire rifles are very hard to legally own.  A poster from Cyprus some years back was looking for a Drill rifle so he could legally purchase an example of an Enfield (God Bless Texas)

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Have a Nice Day
If already having a nice day please disregard


Posted By: Rik
Date Posted: December 26 2017 at 11:46pm
Thanks for the replys, and dont worry about the welding. I live in the Netherlands so you can only own deactivated rifles(ther are exeptions) wich means that every moving part is welded, the barrel has been drilled and plugged at the end.

So the two broadarrows on the barrel could indicate that the rifle is used or accepted by the british military? And No4 rifles dont wear the crown markings of the reigning monarch, like the No1 do?


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: December 27 2017 at 5:32am
The marks on the receiver have been seen on lots of No 4's that have come out of Greece. It has been suggested in the past that they may be from the Greek Royalist Militia but I have not seen any sort of confirmation of that, just that the rifles came out of Greece.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: December 27 2017 at 5:37am
Rik forgot to mention that the rifle was deactivated before posting the pictures and I kinda almost pooped myself when I saw the filled in holes. All better now.


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: December 27 2017 at 5:58am
I noticed he was from the Netherlands so I had assumed it was a deact.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: December 27 2017 at 6:29am
I didn't know that about the Netherlands
I learned something today.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: December 27 2017 at 9:31am
If it was ever accepted into British Military service it would have the "Royal Cypher" (crown & monarch'd initials). It might have been sold direct from the factory to the Greek government though in which case it may have never been in British service.
I miss the "2 broad arrows" in the pictures, but there are several possible explanations for them.
1. Its possible the rifle was re-barreled with an ex military barrel which would have had broad arrow acceptance marks. Does the barrel's serial number match the receivers?
2. look carefully at the "2 arrows" might it be a six pointed star? If so a pair of broad arrows stamped with points touching (or close) is a "sold out of service" (released from military to civilian sale) marking.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Rik
Date Posted: December 27 2017 at 10:11am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

If it was ever accepted into British Military service it would have the "Royal Cypher" (crown & monarch'd initials). It might have been sold direct from the factory to the Greek government though in which case it may have never been in British service.
I miss the "2 broad arrows" in the pictures, but there are several possible explanations for them.
1. Its possible the rifle was re-barreled with an ex military barrel which would have had broad arrow acceptance marks. Does the barrel's serial number match the receivers?
2. look carefully at the "2 arrows" might it be a six pointed star? If so a pair of broad arrows stamped with points touching (or close) is a "sold out of service" (released from military to civilian sale) marking.


The serial number on the barrel matches the one on the receiver. And the barrel has two broadarrows on it and also on the left side of the receiver(no picture)

Above there is also a post from me which was late approved.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: December 27 2017 at 6:38pm
i have a friend in the netherlands that shoots his - do not ever assume anything , you did ythe right thing , that would have been a catastrophy waiting to happen here , we need no more fuel on the antigun sentiments here , 


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: December 27 2017 at 10:08pm
Oh yes, Goosic, by all means you did the right thing. I am just so used to seeing rifles from Netherlands that have been deactivated that I paid it no mind. That attitude was not the right one. I sometimes have to remind myself: Never assume.

Rik, I am trying to compile a book on Maltby rifles and your pictures are fantastic! The pic of the left front body is very nice. That is the clearest inspector stamp I have seen on a Maltby rifle so far. If it is okay with you I would like to save these pictures and use them in the future with all credit going to you, of course. Please let me know if that is acceptable. Also, if you would like your actual name to be attributed to the pictures then please PM me with that info and it will be noted.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: December 28 2017 at 6:33pm
im looking at the markings , it apears the EK/S is a diferent stamp than the EOS , perhaps two seperate markings ? i am by no means saying it is so , but it apears they might be two seperate markings - different stamps - different strikings 

just a thought , i got nothing at hand to back that up , ill have to dig a bit in my records to see if i can find anything on the markings , 


Posted By: SW28fan
Date Posted: December 28 2017 at 8:13pm
"EK"  in  Greek  signifies separation   "EOS"  is a bit tricky  it can mean something like existence or being. Perhaps  "Out of Service" might be a good translation.   I studied Classical Geek so take my translation with a grain (or more) of salt

-------------
Have a Nice Day
If already having a nice day please disregard


Posted By: Rik
Date Posted: December 29 2017 at 1:59am
Originally posted by A square 10 A square 10 wrote:

im looking at the markings , it apears the EK/S is a diferent stamp than the EOS , perhaps two seperate markings ? i am by no means saying it is so , but it apears they might be two seperate markings - different stamps - different strikings 

just a thought , i got nothing at hand to back that up , ill have to dig a bit in my records to see if i can find anything on the markings , 


Maybe you are right, the ek/s part is much deeper stamped. I haven't looked at it that way before!

Here are some pictures of the other broadarrows


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: December 29 2017 at 2:31pm
Rik, I got the pictures you e-mailed. Thank you very much for those!


Posted By: D-Bill76
Date Posted: May 21 2018 at 2:49am
he!!o Rick I’ve sent you a message!


Posted By: D-Bill76
Date Posted: May 21 2018 at 3:58am
I research has shown that it could most likely mean
Training Rifle
EKΠ «εκπαιδευσεως» Training
Δ “Διευθυνση” Directorate or Command


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: May 21 2018 at 5:00pm
kool - between you and SW im learning new stuff from this thread 


Posted By: Rik
Date Posted: May 22 2018 at 10:53am
The markings are still a little bit of a mystery to me!

Wikipedia says that the he!!enic army used Enfields in world war 2 after 1942


Posted By: D-Bill76
Date Posted: May 23 2018 at 10:58am
Yes however the first ones the Greeks received were the mark 1’s later in the war they were equipped with Mark 4’s. The majority of these weapons were supplied to the Greeks from the British to fight the communists during the Civil War between 1944 and 1949 . Where after they were used as training rifle’s .



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