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Moose load

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Reloading
Forum Name: Reloading .303 British
Forum Description: Enfield-Rifles.com accepts NO responsibility for any loads that may be used by persons reading this forum. USE CAUTION WHEN TRYING ANY NEW LOADS!!! ANY DATA DEEMED UNSAFE WILL BE REMOVED!!!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8744
Printed Date: July 19 2018 at 2:15am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Moose load
Posted By: Honkytonk
Subject: Moose load
Date Posted: February 01 2018 at 8:05am
I got invited to put in for moose this year with buddy. Him and his pop and uncle have got drawn every two years. Anyway, I mentioned a while back I had a box of CIL 215 gr (KKSP's) that I wouldn't mind developing a load on. I believe I read, and correct me if I'm wrong, these don't feed very good? If that is the case, I will go with the Sierra ProHunter 180's that shoot well out of the rifle I'll be using.



Replies:
Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: February 01 2018 at 8:13am
You might want to have a secondary magazine adjusted so it can feed those 215 grain rounds because the feed lips most likely will need to be opened up a smidgeon. Mark a piece of masking tape and attach it to the bottom of the magazine so that in the field you can make that distinction between bullet weights.

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 01 2018 at 9:11am
Will do. Excellent tip!


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: February 01 2018 at 10:40am
If you need a good used serviceable #4 magazine just PM me. Are you using a scope on that hunting #4?

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 01 2018 at 1:16pm
Straight 4x Weaver. I do have a spare #4 mag kicking around! Very kind offer! Just found out the average shot in this area is 75yds. Because of terrain, (hills, Meadows) max is about 250yds. Swaying towards the 180's. 250 yds is kinda out of my wheelhouse for a shot where I feel comfortable with a clean kill. More like 150-175yds I'm pretty comfortable with.


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: February 01 2018 at 1:55pm
I use a 4 x 32 old Tasco on my #4 Enfield hunting rifle that hasn't let me down at all.

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: February 01 2018 at 2:56pm
215 gr for hunting...geeze - R U gonna take out some APCs as well?
That's a heavy bullet..gonna drop a whole passel

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 01 2018 at 3:10pm
After talking with buddy and finding out the average shot, will stick with the 180's. He did say after the morning sit for elk and breakfast, they like to mooch around in the frozen swampy and willowy areas for moose. 25-50 yd opportunity at best. I'm thinking the 215's in my new (to me) #5 with open sites might be an Enfield Express Train for old Bullwinkle! Shouldn't drop to much in 50yds.


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 01 2018 at 5:48pm
As I suspect with alot of people on this forum, I feel I was born too late, wishing for an earlier era. Times may not have been easier, but they were simpler. Im also guessing that's why all of you love Enfields.That being said, CIL made those 215gr .303 bullets in Canada after WW2 for hunting. I did a little research, and while Canada never has had an APC season, they have had plenty of the biggest BIG game seasons for the largest game in North America, moose and bear. I suspect CIL made those 215's for those formidable animals. Yes, absolutely better rounds out there, but wouldn't it pay a little homage to the boys that came home after that was looking to put food on the table to hunt big game with what they did? Just my .02 worth...


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: February 01 2018 at 7:56pm
If you reload you can buy 215grn Woodleigh bullets. I've worked a great load up for it and it cycles and feeds just fine.


Posted By: Macd
Date Posted: February 01 2018 at 8:03pm
Moose here are a bit smaller but I always used the 180 grain KKSP when I hunted with my first .303.  Sighted for 200 , it was maximum point blank range out to about 260 yards,  MV was advertised at 2540 and it still had 1000f# at 300 yards.  I had a 4X Bushnell scope on a one piece Weaver Mount.  I moved on to a 30-06.  I only picked up maybe 20-25 yards in MPBR but 2700 fps MV and a whopping 500f# in retained energy at 300.  Same KKSP 180 grain.  All these numbers come from CIL range and ballistics tables.  Last moose I shot was a young bull at 350 paces and it just collapsed in a heap after a couple of steps.  I tried the CPE (Copper Point Expanding) and ST (Saber Tip) in the same weight but while they had better ballistics they didn't have the same terminal performance the KKSP did, or at least not for me.   Thanks for bringing back some great memories.  Good hunting.

I just read Gossic's post.  The CIL tables show a MV of 2180 for the 215 KKSP.  Almost identical to his Woodleigh load.


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 01 2018 at 8:14pm
Thanks Goosic! I do reload. Those are some pretty bullets that look like they would leave a mark. Macd, I've heard similar stories from older gentlemen that swear by big, round nosed bullets for big round nose swamp donkey! They all said they hit harder than a spitzer. I personally have never shot round nose, but I'm gonna try! Thanks guys!


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: February 01 2018 at 9:22pm
You don't really need 215 gr, but if hunting with a "modern" rifle, (cartridge gun) I use them in my old Ishapore because it shoots like a so-and-so with them.
 
It only has the original open sights, and even though I'm the wrong side of 60, it still performs.
As sights are, on 100 yard setting, she shoots near 3" high.   and this is good enough for elk and moose out to 175 yards.  If further out,  I'd put sight on "200"  and it then shoots a tad over 3" high at that range.
Shot 2 bull elk in last 3 years.  One a 6X6 and the other a 5 x 6 here on the farm, and oddly enough both right around 170 yards.  Both only took the one shot.
 
As the gun likes these bullets, I have used it on deer as well, and being a big slower bullet, it causes little damage to the meat.  They might walk a few yards after being hit, the bullet not 'exploding' like 150 gr slugs do, but they always fall over.
Shot  a good lot of coyotes with this same gun and ammo as well. 
 
Hoadie,
If bullet sounds heavy, my "normal" hunting projectiles  have been between  a .58" to a .75" ball, or the 480 gr bullet from the Martini -Henry, or same  weight from the Snider -Enfield....just to put it into perspective.
Moose are  easier to put down than an elk.   a .30-30 will shoot  a hole through a moose most times broadside, not so an elk.
 
Goosic,
I see you have seated them a bit deeper than I do, but that will get over the No 4's feed problems nicely.  Good show!


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: February 02 2018 at 5:01am
I've always used 150 gr on deer, & 180 gr on moose. We have elk on the property, but haven't hunted them (yet).
I've dropped moose pretty handily with the 180. I've observed the elk around the cabin, as they move about. I note the cow & calves seem to be somewhat smaller than moose, & again - I figger a 180 should do the trick. But, I've noticed the bulls & I'm not sure on it. I note the larger size..but its the agressivness & power the bulls have. I watched one come across the driveway. He had the cow & calf ahead of him. He followed-up behind & kicked the crap out of every tree & bush along his path. One of them got hold of our older steel tree stands, & continuously hit it until he got it off the tree. Then he continued to bash it until he broke 3 of the welds on the ladder & bent a leg. (Had to take it into Bancroft to have it re-welded!) Ithink Rhino seen that.
Anyway, I'm thinking a 180 should handle it..but better have a 2nd round ready - just in case.

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 02 2018 at 5:27am
I have harvested a big moose cow before but not a bull. Heard them called a barn door with attitude!!!


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: February 02 2018 at 6:41am
Hoadie,
 
With elk, if you don't get their attention with the first shot, any following shots don't seem to fizz on them.
An elk never acts hit  like a moose does.  No flinch or jump or anything usually.
Only one that reacted straight away was when I shot one with the Martini with the 480 gr pill. went up in the air and came down in a heap, only twitched about twice.  Was a front -on shot, and broke neck at base.
 
I80 grain is plenty for elk, as long as you hit them right ,which goes for Any bullet.


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 05 2018 at 3:48pm
Goosic, what is the overall length of those pretty Woodleigh 215's? Thanks.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: February 05 2018 at 5:23pm
The overall length of the bullet itself is, 1.223"
The total overall length of the rifle round is,2.894"


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 05 2018 at 5:35pm
Thanks Goosic! I'm curious to put a Mike on those CIL 215 grs I have and compare.


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: February 06 2018 at 5:45am
Honks,
 
I think they will run pretty close.


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 06 2018 at 5:54am
Goosic. At this total length, did you say you had no feeding problems or did you still have to tweak the mag?


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 06 2018 at 5:57am
Pukka, I think you will be right, but unfortunately, exact measurements will have to wait as wifey lent my Mike to her brother. (I want to know what she was doing in my Man Cave without proper authorization?)


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: February 06 2018 at 7:05am
I don't have an issue with them feeding. I've actually have never had an issue with round nosed bullets not feeding. Before I started reloading,I always had to buy Remington's Kore Lokt 180grn RN,or Winchester 180grm RN. Not alot I'd Enfield owners in Arizona so,not alot of choices in bullets. We have a Cabellas and a Bass Pro Shops and all you can find are the Privi partican rounds. I have tweeked the magazine a little and have always taken the time to polish the feed ramp on all my rifles so,that might be another reason mine feed. I set my bullets a tad deeper only because I want the the round just starting to touch the rifling. I have noticed that it dose help with feeding,but only just...


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 06 2018 at 7:16am
Good info. I also polish the feed ramps on my rifles. Thanks!


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 06 2018 at 7:46am
Goosic. You mentioned you loaded those Woodleighs a tad deeper. The overall length you gave me, could I assume this is that deeper setting? Also, those CIL's have a cannelure on them. Will be curious to see where it ends up as I plan to load s few for test firing to your dimensions. Thanks!


Posted By: pogson
Date Posted: July 10 2018 at 5:34pm
If you're going after elk you may find yourself in open country offered a longer shot. If you use a pointed 180 from Sierra, ballistic coefficient is about 0.4 and according to Hodgdon you could get up to 2500 ft/s muzzle-velocity with a Remington case full of H4350. That will kill an elk easily out to 300 yards with just a 7.5 inch height of trajectory. Set up a target at that range and shorter and make sure you have the zero and accuracy necessary. You want the bullet to be about 6 inches high at 100 yards as a starting point.



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