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Range time

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Hunting with the .303 British cartridge.
Forum Description: Share your hunting stories with the rest of us.
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8766
Printed Date: August 17 2018 at 8:49am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Range time
Posted By: Honkytonk
Subject: Range time
Date Posted: February 12 2018 at 5:56pm
I kinda wussed out the other day going to the range. Didn't get above -15c but their calling for -5c (-23f for our American friends) on Wednesday in this part of the country and I've been itching to take my new No5 and No4 Parker-Hale Enfield out for a maiden shoot! Got a full box of 174 gr FMJ ready roll!



Replies:
Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: February 12 2018 at 6:17pm
methinks you figgered incorrectly on the temperature.
- 5 C isn't - 23 F...just sayin

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: February 12 2018 at 6:53pm
+23 F but it’s still bloody well cold. One has to factor in the wind chill and moisture factors as well.

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 13 2018 at 6:12am
You are correct. I meant +23f. Balmy for us lately!


Posted By: SW28fan
Date Posted: February 13 2018 at 6:35pm
Burr,  I don't even want think about it.  I got Raynauld's Syndrome and have to stay out of the cold

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Have a Nice Day
If already having a nice day please disregard


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 14 2018 at 9:25am
Just got back from the range. Pretty happy with results as I hadn't shot either rifle before. No4 with 4x Weaver was about 1" group at both 25 and 50yds. No5 was 2" @ 25yds, and 3" @ 50yds, with two cloverleafing! All with battle sites. All were 3 shot groups using 174 gr FMJ went to the 100yd range and proceeded to ring steel plates! Sent two boxes down range this morning! Fun morning.


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 14 2018 at 11:50am
Forgot to mention. I had a box of mismatched .303 ammo that I shot for the brass. Neither rifle liked the round nose bullets!


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: February 14 2018 at 2:46pm
hmmmm , SW28fan , we have this in common - " I got Raynauld's Syndrome and have to stay out of the cold" - i have to be careful too , 

+23f is right on the edge of where i have to think twice about going out , deffinetly have to limit my exposure .

the round nose bullets like slower speeds , much like the US krag rifle and early 3003 - they needed to stay under 2000fps , thus the 3006 and its spitzers 


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 14 2018 at 3:17pm
Actually, meant both rifles didn't like the round noses for feeding! I loaded them single shot style. I'll need to tweak the lips on the magazine, I suspect. Those FMJ's fed like a dream!


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 15 2018 at 5:48am
I hadn't shot alot in the last year or so. This morning, I must admit my shoulder feels it! Forgot how the No5 has a definite "thump" to it!!!


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: February 15 2018 at 6:08am
Honks,
 
I had a slow -motion photo of my daughter firing a musket, with 125 grs of 2F and a .750" ball.
 
She looked like a rag -doll when it went off, but loved firing it, wasn't fazed by it.   It looked like whiplash in slow -motion though.   
I remember my No 5.  Looked lovely but a "nasty little bugger" I thought!  LOL!


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: May 23 2018 at 5:10am
Getting ready to take a buddy to the range to site in his .308 Winchester model 88. I'm taking my No5 and a box of 180gr. Last time I shot this rifle, if i recall correctly, I was getting about a 4" group @50yds. For me with open sites I was pretty happy! I got a bunch of paper 5" plates for targets. I'll give her a go at 100 yds.


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: May 23 2018 at 9:41am
Just got back from the range. Buddies .308 shoots good. Best surprise of the day? Shot two rounds at 50 yds from a rest with my No5. Scored two hits on s 5" pie plate! Then we went to the 100 yd rangs. Shot a string of three rounds. All in the pie plate. Two touching! I am not kidding. (I had buddy take pictures on his I Phone of the plate and my No5. Awesome day!


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: May 23 2018 at 11:09am
Nice shootin'! Love those carbines!

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: May 23 2018 at 11:34am
Thanks! I'm assuming 90% luck but each shot felt good. Shamu has again been kind and will post some of my pics. The cloverleaved one showed up better on the cardboard I had behind the plate.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 24 2018 at 6:12am
Here you go, mate.








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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 24 2018 at 6:14am
Targets:





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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 24 2018 at 6:15am
Not sure why but the other pic of the plate doesn't want to post.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: May 24 2018 at 9:16am
maybe you "had too much on your plate"

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: May 24 2018 at 11:49am
Nyuk nyuk nyuk....badda boom badda bing

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: May 24 2018 at 2:56pm
I used paper plates as I'm old and my eyes aren't as good as they used to be. Both 50 and 100 yd was shot with the battle site. The planets must have been aligned as I'm a self professed non open site shooter. (I actually outshot buddy @ 100 yds. He was shooting a .308 Win Model 88 with a 3x9 Bushnell.)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 24 2018 at 3:02pm
A friend of mine practiced for hunting season with them.

He'd make a fist, place it in the center of the plate & draw round it with a sharpie. Then he'd fill in the area inside the fist with sharpie strokes.

It simulated the "vital area" of a deer & the heart almost perfectly.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: May 24 2018 at 3:32pm
Exactly my thinking! 5" target, lungs or heart! I think it's safe to say I'm a hunter, definitely not a marksman like some of the other members have displayed. While envious, it's a talent I will never possess but I'm comfortable with that. (I also can't golf!)


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: May 25 2018 at 4:17am
HT: It must be a Prairie thing", cause round here we keep the deer heart! (Theres a fine in my camp if you blow the heart away! $5.00 & drinks on you!)

I'm like you - I hunt, & can't use a scope worth a darn! (Tired old 63 yr old eyes). But open battle sites give me all the "help" I need.

Deer give the term "fast food" a whole new meaning

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: May 25 2018 at 4:21am
I like beef heart. And chicken and turkey heart. I'm not sure why I've never tried venison heart. Hoadie, do you have a favorite recipe you could share?


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: May 25 2018 at 5:19am
Yep.One that works for everyone!

Will PM you

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: May 25 2018 at 5:23am
Thanks Hoadie.


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: May 25 2018 at 6:04am
Question. I was using those Imperial KKSP's. 180gr. I believe they were factory original. They cycled well in the carbine. I put the caliper on one. It was 2.93". Does this seem short?


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 25 2018 at 7:55am
Here's a very traditional English one.

Umble pie, Figgy Pudding’s version…

For the pastry:

200g plain flour
1/2 tsp salt
100g butter  (cut into small, rough cubes)
large pinch of saffron
1 egg yolk
cold water (about half a mug of cold water will be needed)
 

For the filling:

6 strips of streaky bacon 
100g bacon lardons
200g venison offal also add venison scraps as available, but remove any fat. (kidneys, liver & sweetbreads work best; chopped & boiled for around 20 minutes until tender, then cooled)
1 1/2 cups fresh or frozen berries (raspberries, blueberries, blackberries, etc.) 4 dried apricots, diced.
1/4 tsp freshly-grated nutmeg
1/2 tsp freshly-ground black pepper
10 cloves
1 tsp Mace
1 tsp nutmeg
1 tsp cinnamon
1/4 tsp salt
100g butter
100ml red wine
1 tsp fresh thyme leaves, chopped
 
Boil the offal & spices (cloves, mace nutmeg & cinnamon) for 20 minutes and then leave to cool for 40 minutes. At the same time as you begin boiling the offal, If you’re using saffron to give your pastry a warm golden-hue, steep the saffron in a tablespoon of hot water for 30 minutes or so. By the time you come to use the water, it should have completely cooled.
 
Sift flour and salt into a large bowl; a metal bowl works best as it keeps the pastry cool. Put the cubes of butter into the flour, and with your fingers, rub the butter into the flour.  Keep rubbing until the mixture has the texture of fine, small breadcrumbs. Drop the egg yolk into a well and add 2 tablespoons of cold water and the (now-cooled) saffron water. Mix with a butter knife. Mix everything together, adding more cold water if necessary and keep mixing until a ball of pastry is easily formed.  Wrap the pastry in cling film and put in the fridge for around 30 minutes.
 
 Roll 2/3 of the pastry out until it is thin enough to cover the base and sides of the pie dish. Then line the dish with the pastry and arrange 3 bacon rashers one way and make a criss-cross pattern by laying the other 3 slices in the opposite direction. Put the pie funnel in the centre of the pie and around this put the cooled, cooked offal and the bacon lardons. Add the pepper, salt, fruits & nutmeg. Roll out the remaining pastry and use to cover the pie. Crimp the edges closed, using a little water to join the pie lid to the edges. You can use any leftover pastry to make leaves or more intricate designs! Brush the top of your pastry with a little milk or cream, just before placing in the oven.
 
Bake in  an oven at 180°C for 40 minutes. While the pie is cooking In the meantime, mix the wine, butter and thyme leaves in a saucepan. Heat until the butter melts then bring to a slow boil. Reduce to a simmer and cook down for about 5 minutes or until slightly thickened.
 
When you remove the pie from the oven pour in the wine sauce (if you have a pie funnel that allows this to be poured into the pie – even better! Serve hot with peas or other green veg.
 


Fresh from the oven…

 

The Results…

If you like liver, this won’t disappoint (but does anyone really like liver these days?). The liver and kidneys give a lovely flavour to the bacon and those juices seep into the pastry below. I think it would be better in future if the liver, kidney and lardons were all the same size, cut up very small, so that the flavours mix together far better. If all three meats placed within the pie resembled a large mince, I think the outcome could be quite delicious.



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: pogson
Date Posted: July 14 2018 at 4:25pm
I had some range-time today with an old 303 Ross Rifle passed down from my grandfather to my father to my brother and now to me... I remember my father taking several deer with it and the last time he hunted deer was in the 1970s. There were two boxes of old ammunition, one Dominion brand 150SP probably from the 1950s and the other Imperial 174 RN probably from his last hunting expedition in the 1970s. The rifle is rather unique, a straight-pull designed and built before WW I in Canada.

The weather was forecast to be digustingly hot so we drove out after breakfast and hiked from the road to a sand-pit with a good bank as a backstop. It was comfortable weather when we set out but the exertion of setting up warmed us up well. The rifle shot very well even with the ancient ammunition except the groups were a bit low for the sights. I guess the ammunition is "tired" and needed to be retired. I fired some reloads as well with modern powder and primers and bullets. That was delightful. Recoil with one load was a bit painful with a steel butt-plate but the other was fine. Accuracy at 90 yards was certainly deer-killing. Once we figured out which sights to use, this beast was a pleasure to shoot. It was easy to see both the rear peep and the front post on the target and nice groups were had for rabbits let alone deer.

By the time we finished firing, the sun was baking us and all our equipment. Everything was hot to the touch and we were bathed in sweat. Biggest problem of the day was seeing with sweat running in our eyes. We retired to our air-cooled home and had lunch.

I'm going to try to use this rifle for deer in the fall if I don't get one with my muzzle-loader first. I would not hesitate to take a deer at all the ranges where I can see them clearly with this rifle. It's a pleasure to hold and shoot and it carries so much history and familial memories. Trigger, bolt, action, feeding, extraction all were nice. They just don't make rifles like this much any more and it's a pity. The "sporty" things and the black plastic rifles just don't appeal to me. A wooden stock and strong steel barrel with iron sights is the way Nature intended this old boy to throw stones.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: July 14 2018 at 9:59pm
Pogson.
I'm not certain at all if you know this or not but,the Ross rifle has a pretty bad reputation for the bolt to inadvertently unlock after a round has been fired and discharge backwards into the shooters face. This is a small read from Wikipedia on the Ross rifle.

The rifle showed poor tolerance of dirt when used in field conditions, particularly the screw threads operating the bolt lugs, jamming the weapon open or closed. Another part of the jamming problem came from the bolt's outer face hitting the bolt stop, then deforming the thread shape. The bolt could also be disassembled for routine cleaning and inadvertently reassembled in a manner that would fail to lock but still allow a round to be fired, leading to serious injury or death of the operator as the bolt flew back into his face...


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: July 15 2018 at 4:32am
Does anyone know what the actual facts are on Ross bolt blow back accidents? Seems to me there was another thread on this and it was very rare, and only one of the marks (or two?) could be disassembled incorrectly. Modification could have prevented this. The other more common problem was with variabilities in .303 ammunition (between Canadian and British) such that cartridges made to the high side of tolerance wouldn’t chamber. This could have been easily corrected by reaming the chambers. Mud in the trenches likely also played havoc with the fine machining tolerances in the bolt screw threads, not as easy to fix. This rifle was a superb target rifle but not a practical service rifle for the mud in the trenches in France.

My Dad had a Ross Military Match, in .280 Ross, that shot exceptionally well. I’ve got a 100 yard target he shot in the ‘60s that is sub MOA. He paid $600 for that rifle in 1966!! I wish he still had it, I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot it.

Other rifles in history had accidents, read about the 1903 Springfield burst recievers and bolt blow backs in Hatcher’s Notebook. No record of fatal accidents at that time, but 3 cases of loss of an eye and another 3 of “serious” injury. These were typically caused by a case head failure, something the Lee action handles well.







Posted By: pogson
Date Posted: July 15 2018 at 4:38am
Goosic wrote, "I'm not certain at all if you know this or not but,the Ross rifle has a pretty bad reputation for the bolt to inadvertently unlock after a round has been fired and discharge backwards into the shooters face. This is a small read from Wikipedia on the Ross rifle."

I am very well aware of that. That's why my father put this thing away and bought an Enfield... There was no Internet back in the day. However, the flaw in the design is well known and my rifle has a pin installed to prevent the incorrect assembly of the bolt. Mine is the Mark III. Just for certainty, we observed carefully the rotation of the locking lugs in use at the range. Loved shooting it.

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaSui_UqDX8" rel="nofollow - Myth and Reality of the Ross MkIII Rifle


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: July 15 2018 at 5:26am
Might be an urban legend but it was enough to stop me from test firing one I cleaned and refinished the stock for a guy many years ago!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 15 2018 at 5:40am
The Mk1 could be incorrectly assembled, if the screw threads were mismatched it wasn't locked. They fixed that & several other issues with the mk3.
There's a video on it in "forgotten Weapons" let me see if I can find it.



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 15 2018 at 5:41am
Oops sorry, I missed your link.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: July 16 2018 at 6:19am
I posted some info - a while back - about the Ross.
First-hand experience from a WWI veteran.(sadly, he's gone now)
He had re-counted to me how while training, they heard the rumours of the Ross's failure. It always put doubt in their minds.
Then the guy on the platform beside him experienced the failure (in Niagara on the Lake - near Ft.George) The bolt killed the man.
He said it was an accurate & fine shooting rifle...but it was difficult to be accurate after seeing this - when as you shot you would roll your head left...just in case!

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Loose wimmen tightened here



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