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Six to one,half a dozen to the other...

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Rifles
Forum Description: Anything that has to do with the great Enfield rifles!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8818
Printed Date: March 28 2024 at 6:35am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Six to one,half a dozen to the other...
Posted By: Goosic
Subject: Six to one,half a dozen to the other...
Date Posted: March 10 2018 at 5:18pm

Both of these are No4 Mk2 rifles. The top one was rescued and refurbished to original condition. The bottom one is an amalgamation of N.O.S. aftermarket parts, including the cut down No1 MkIII barrel. Both are beautiful to me.



Replies:
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: March 10 2018 at 5:54pm
im more fond of the top one myself but i get it that you like both , 


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: March 10 2018 at 7:22pm
Given that it's done right,I'm fond of any No4,in whatever form ,from stock to extensively modified.


Posted By: Ranch Dog
Date Posted: March 11 2018 at 12:02pm
I don't know why, but I'm a fellow that likes a well-finished sporter. Your's sure looks good!


Posted By: Pedro
Date Posted: March 11 2018 at 2:06pm
Viva la difference.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 11 2018 at 2:50pm
My only critique with the sporter is that I'd have shortened the barrel by several inches for balance.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: March 11 2018 at 3:09pm
I kept the military from site with the protective ears on my latest Parker Hale Sporter. I really like the look! Coupled with a walnut cheek piece and the new Addley scope mount coming (that supplies a rear peep calibrated to the specs of the battle site, I like the ability for a back up aiming system during the hunt!


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: March 11 2018 at 3:10pm
...also, a couple of extra inches cannot hurt accuracy!


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: March 11 2018 at 3:25pm
I very much kept the balance in mind when I started this project. I started with a 25 inch No1 MkIII barrel. After a bunch of mocking up,I got it to balance quite well. From measuring inside where the riflings start,it twists exactly two and a quarter times at 21 1/4",with a total barrel length of 23 1/4". The photos show it to be fairly well balanced​. The bar stool back is only 1/2" wide,about a fingers width.
This is with a fully loaded five round magazine too.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: March 11 2018 at 3:35pm

This might be a better shot...


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: March 11 2018 at 4:32pm
for what its worth here , ive a,ways been a traditionalist but not often had an issue with the sporters , i grew up in that era , i know the work - much that i respect greatly , and have no issue withthe sported rifles , i like to think that those few that have not been sported are still there for we collectors of original equipment , i do not see the ownwers of sorters as the problem , 

i see those that continue to cut originals to a sporter as a problem , we can both exist , together , we both have our interest ,and there are so many new items to cut and paste these days that are so much better for the purpose , im just in that court of leaving originals as they were when they are antiques , 

im not anti sporter - if you look at my past posts you will see that , i dont have a lot of sporters in my accumulation , but i have a couple , that are fantastic fetes of american gunsmithing , one i shoot regularly , 

but then - i am also of the group that believe if you bought it you own it - you can do as you please with it - i may not agree but its yours 


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: March 11 2018 at 5:10pm
Rest assured A Square. This was not a cut up original. This was pieced together with every spare part I had on hand. When I purchased the receiver,I was informed that one of the ears for the sight was cracked and possibly not repairable. It was in fact broken off. I will always leave well enough alone with an original,the only exception being the T rifle I put together. If I find one that has been bubba'd beyond reasonable conversion back to original,I will clean it up and make it presentable as a sporter.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: March 11 2018 at 5:21pm
i think my friend - we have no issues , there have not been any in the past , i forsee none in the future , i like the idea that you are picking up items that have been discarded and such and rebuilding them into useable firearms , so much in life is lost or discarded as junk , its refereshing to know that such items get a new lease on life , 




Posted By: Stanforth
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 2:59am
If you had a newish motor car in the '60's you might well have modified it.... No problem
 
If you had a classic 1960's motor car now and modified it you would be ruining it's history.


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Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 4:27am
Very true Stanforth but, were has the history gone to in an Enfield rifle that is missing the majority of its pieces when you've found it? I have four No4 rifles that came into my possession in various stages of disrepair,one of which had a hose clamp holding the shortened stock to the cut down barrel together. That one in particular became a No4 Mk1 T Sniper rifle. It looks period correct but no history. Another one,the one pictured,is a Maltby No4 Mk1/2. Trying to find the correct furniture for that was not easy but I managed. It is all back to what it looked like when it left Fazackerley in 52' after its FTR. Still no history. The history of those two were removed when the previous owners cut it out of the rifles. The modified version you see in this post had all of its history taken from it a long time ago. It is an amalgamation of parts that I had,the last item being the receiver that came to me missing a piece off the back of it. It could not be restored to it's former self so without question and without hesitation,I made what you see here,and here is where it gets a new lease on life and a new history to write like,one day my grandchild might say,"Look at this,my grandpa made this." I was raised knowing that if something is worth doing,it's worth doing right. If I can restore an Enfield to its original military condition,I will. However,if I can't,I will spend the time and money to modify it so that it can still be used and admired.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 4:38am
Stanforth.
All five of these rifles share one absolute and that is,all of them are aftermarket Enfields. Each one was pieced together.
The middle one in the last photos was originally modified by Golden State Arms, I just added to the modification...


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 5:35am
Goosic. I would give my wife's left arm for such a collection!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 5:44am
Oh no problem here either, I'm quite fond of "Ernie" (in front of "Bert")



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 6:23am
I like their names, Sham!
 
Goosic,
 
Your sporting rifle looks very nicely done, apart from that crescent-shaped kick pad.
To me it looks like it would really Bu--er up  smooth mounting for fast shooting.
 
Rest looks very grand!


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 6:40am
Pukka. First off,thank you. The recoil pads are fully adjustable made by Morgan. They're used on alot of target rifle setups.
I prefer them over regular recoil pads because of their shock absorbing factor and you can get a better shoulder weld,for me anyways...


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 7:11am
Goosic,
 
Yes, I can see it would work well for target work....no slippage, it's just for sporting purposes it would bind a bit, particularly with heavy clothing I'd think.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 7:17am
Originally posted by Stanforth Stanforth wrote:


If you had a newish motor car in the '60's you might well have modified it.... No problem
 
If you had a classic 1960's motor car now and modified it you would be ruining it's history.
Stanforth. This rifle goes right along with your comment but, only to a point. I bought the rifle,not the story. The individual I purchased it from told me his grandfather walked into the Savage Stevens plant and bought it outright in 1947,along with a bag of what he referred to as,"looking through bits," from Parker Hale. It was a barreled action with a butt stock attached when I got it. The only bit of interesting history was that it never made it overseas, staying right in the US. I bought unissued Savage furniture,cleaned everything up,put the Parker Hale looking through bits on it,found a Savage bolt and magazine and fit both to the rifle. Now. Did I ruin a piece of history or,did I just finish what this guy's grandpa started.
The rifle by the way is, according to the serial number,a 1942 No4 Mk1* Savage Lend Lease made Enfield rifle.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 8:22am
Pukka:
I kept the theme going with the SMLE, Say he!!o to Bert & Ernie's Da, "George"!
Big smile




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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 9:08am
I like it!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 11:02am
The thing to remember with modifying original is that its always been done to an extent.
"Back in the day" No1's & No4's were adapted for target shooting like Goosic's version, so aren't they equally a part of the rifle's history?

I remember when "Fulton's Regulated" No4's fitted with P-H #5c sights, or No1'swith P-H 5A's like mine, were the queens of the long ranges at Bisley. I had friends that shot P-14 modified with Schultz & Larsen "Light Bullet Special" barrels were king out to 500, but for the 1,00 & beyond the ol' No4  (still in .303 British) came out because of the "legendary long range accuracy" at 1,00yds.
BSA made civilian sporter versions, & so did several gunsmith firms like the original British Gibbs, (not the modern knock-off one).


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 11:17am
As for the classic car argument I wish I still had my 1968 Triumph T-120 RV Bonneville, it'd be worth a fortune, even with:

Westlake 8-valve head.

Dual plugs per cylinder.

750 bored out, sleeved alloy barrels

(at various times 9.7, 10.7 or 6.5 (for the blown version)) pistons.

"Police" hi lift, long dwell camshafts.

Dual Wal Phillips fuel injectors

6" bellmouth inlets. (used 2 pairs of "knee Highs" as an air filter!)

exhaust driven turbocharger

Dual magneto ignition (the original BTH one & a new Lucas conversion)

Thruxton gearbox

fully race kitted, (Clip-ons, rearsets, single racing saddle 5-gallon gas tank you laid down on)

dual Blauplunkt halogen headlights (actually a fog & a spot, one for high beam, the other for low)

& so on.
a little like this but with the injectors where his mufflers are with really loooong inlet pipes because the blower filled all the space between the rear of the cylinders & the frame down tube, but minus the fairing:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c9/61/5b/c9615bef79008ee39b5773f2b199d9e4.jpg
There's eventually a point where it becomes SO modified it becomes exotic in its own right!
Hug


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 11:41am

I was waiting for someone to say something about the classic car. This is my high school ride. 1968 Camaro. Bought it for $100.00 from a junk yard,and then modified it way beyond stock. Used to race it on the weekends. That was in 84'...


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 12:03pm
Nice bike and car!! My teenage car was a 1968 Mustang Fastback I got in 1976. Even swap for a '70 Chevelle I had. Sold the Mustang in 1977 for $1200. 289, 3-spd standard, 4 bbl, cam, headers, Mickey Thompson tires, jacked up sky high!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 12:04pm
I won a $100 bet back in the day from a USAF  phantom driver in the U.K. on a bike very much like that one!
He should have listened.
"First one to 100mph from a standing start at idle wins"
He was still spooling, waiting for the nose leg to compress when I was doing 65!
Course once he got some steam up he shot past, but it wasn't who takes off first!
Confused
I still miss my "pocket rocket"

I'm a 'Stang guy. I drove a '68 Mach 1 Shelby from Cleveland to West Lafayette, IN, I was hooked apart from the soft suspension.
Never owned one though, not a car guy at heart.
* sigh *


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

As for the classic car argument I wish I still had my 1968 Triumph T-120 RV Bonneville, it'd be worth a fortune, even with:

 
Shamu, I can appreciate this.  Fortunately, my Dad hung on to his 1967 Velocette Thruxton; although he sold off his two unissued No. 4(T) sniper kits, P14, Ross and various other rifles before I knew it!! 
 
I've got the Thruxton now, I rode on the back of this machine when I was a kid.  It sat up in the loft of the garage for 25 years and we brought it down around 10 years ago.  It's pretty much original.  Had to rebuild the top end a few years back (no intake filter) and the clutch (like every Velocette), but sure is a joy to ride.  I've put about 25,000 miles on it.  New tires of course!
 
 
 
 
 
 


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: March 12 2018 at 12:49pm
I had a '70 Mach 1..315 Cleveland, C-6 trans.

Sure wish I had that ride now! (They only made a total of 23,000 of them.)

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 13 2018 at 5:50am
Literally  The Little Old Lady I know has owned this one from new!
I keep offering her what she paid for it brand new, ($4360.45) but she may be old (sadly now passed on) but she was never stupid!
Clown



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)



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