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A new (to me) pointy bit for the 1914 ShtLE

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Bayonets
Forum Description: General discussion about bayonets for the Enfield rifles
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8961
Printed Date: August 15 2018 at 3:27pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: A new (to me) pointy bit for the 1914 ShtLE
Posted By: Shamu
Subject: A new (to me) pointy bit for the 1914 ShtLE
Date Posted: May 09 2018 at 7:23am
Well I dun did it.

Won a Pat 07 Bayonet off e-pay!

I've been looking for one to fit the ShtLE & this looks like a suitable candidate in well used but not beat to heck condition. Sheath leather looks like it needs a little help, but we'll see. My neatsfoot oil (not compound) & a little black shoe polish should work wonders.

Paid US$ 125 shipped so I think I did all right.

Sorry about poor pics will post better when it arrives. These are copied & stitched together from e-pay's page.

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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)



Replies:
Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: May 09 2018 at 8:18am
Looks good there and the price is decent. Once I get my gun room unpacked and settled I have to start looking for some bits like this.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 09 2018 at 8:31am
I was pleased with the result, I was playing 3 vendors off against each other. They were all asking $140~$150 + shipping & I got it down to $125 shipped so I'm happy.
Can anybody tell me a bit more bout the markings?

I see:
(a very faint) Kings crown
1907
9XXXX17 (X's are blank spaces)
on one side & on the other:
A broad arrow & 3 proofs, or inspectors marks.
No makers mark that I can see though, is that odd?

The sheath has the early "teardrop" frog button, which is nice.



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: May 09 2018 at 1:41pm
Shamu, have a close look below the date stamp ; which is the 9   17 (September 1917). I bet you may see a faint "SANDERSON" stamp there. 
The X is the bend/flex test pass stamp I believe. 
Looks like a nice example. 
Here's a photo of my Sanderson 1907. Made in October 1917.

and my Sanderson 1907 made January 1908 and refitted in 1921



Both of these have "teardrop " type scabbards.


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 09 2018 at 2:37pm
Thanks!
I thought it was a poorly stamped broad arrow, but yes it could be a poor "X" as well.
I'll check & take better pics when it arrives.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: May 09 2018 at 8:21pm
yes the "X" is the bending proof , it looks like a nice find - cannot see well enough to ID , i think ZED may be correct , 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 10 2018 at 6:08am
Interesting, your blade seems blued, mine seems to have had most of the blue removed. I remember reading somewhere the blades were originally blue but were then changed to a brushed satin & finally to smooth, not polished steel.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: May 10 2018 at 11:41am
The refurbished one is blued, the 1917 one is not. I'll try and get some proper photos over the weekend to post.



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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: May 10 2018 at 12:04pm
Interestingly I've just read an article on these 1907 model bayonets; in which the author states that the blades where left in the white (untreated) steel during wartime production; but were sand blasted to dark grey during refurbishment after WWI. So maybe I need to take a closer look. To be honest i got the refurbed one about 6 years ago, so haven't really studied it lately or compared it properly to the 1917 made one.



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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 10 2018 at 2:16pm
Yes, that sounds like the same reference. I honestly don't remember all the details, but something was blued somewhere by someone!
Wacko
my rifle is a 1914 that was FTR'd in 1944, At least we assume so because the FTR has no date but its a 1944 BBl, so just about anything will be PC/HC!
Big smile


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: May 10 2018 at 4:44pm
they were in the white till after the war , the refurbs were were treaded differently depending on where done , but in general blued of a sort , some just in the handle area , unlike the WWII era when complete phosphate was typical  


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 11 2018 at 5:37am
Interesting I have a No9 which is black paint (Suncorite again?) with a bare metal blade


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: May 11 2018 at 9:27am
I got a pair of No9 bayonets in a job lot last year. One is Suncorite and one is Parkerised.
Not sure who made what. 



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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 11 2018 at 12:40pm
OK I guess the standard wasn't as uniform as we thought!
Embarrassed




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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: May 14 2018 at 11:23am
Decided to take out both 1907 bayonets and have a proper look. Realised that I'd made an error in my earlier post. The 1917 made one also has a repair date! 1927. See photos. There are quite a few differences in the finish; black handle on the 1921 repair and "white" metal on the 27. Screws wrong way round in one; not sure which is correct. 




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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: May 14 2018 at 12:52pm
the blade sockets were made in the white again , both of those shown are correct as made , i was refering to the P07s 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 19 2018 at 5:43am
Sorry for the lack of update, its because nothing has arrived yet!
Angry
Nothing at all, no bayonet, no shipping or tracking info, nothing!

I sent a message via e-pay & got a reply that health issues had prevented shipping.
I guess they also prevented a short note, or depositing the funds as well?
Ouch
Not really thrilled, waiting . . .


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: May 19 2018 at 7:17am
U pays yo money...you takes yo chances!

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 19 2018 at 8:55am
Yup, it's a crap shewt!
Sick


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: May 19 2018 at 7:36pm
hoping for the best - i think you might be suprised - i keep getting things i forgot i ordered , 

recently my son was at a shoot that somehow went radically wrong , the place burned down - yes they were in it , got out but he lost his gun pack with a couple firearms , ive found a replacement pack - it came last week - thought my wife ordered whatever it was as she gets delivery every day , wasnt till she brought it up to my "room" that i realised that it was for me , the kid , replacement pack , its what he had , hope he likes it - if not i have a use for it , 

i wish you well on it , im not one to speak much on the bad deals - ive not had one yet , but i do appreciate they can happen , 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 24 2018 at 2:37pm
This deal is sinking slowly in the West dying a long, slow, lingering, horrible death.
Dead
Still hasn't shipped, now 3 days past the deadline to receive. No comms. Nothing.

E-Pay notified of failure to supply after payment in good faith.
WAHHHHHhhhhh! But I'm WORKING on it!

CC co informed E-pay informed if it hasn't actually, physically, made it to the delivery service by the 30th Its dead!
Cry
Disputing both E-pay & the bank that day at close of business.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: May 24 2018 at 7:15pm
sorry to hear this , ive been very fortunate in my on-line deals i guess , 


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: May 25 2018 at 4:12am
So NOT COOL!

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 25 2018 at 7:52am
I've usually been as well, but I don't think so this time round.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 26 2018 at 6:22am
Oi what a roller coaster ride, its like a soap opera I swear.
Confused
I posted a complaint (non-shipment) with E-Pay & they informed the seller of my deadline (Physically shipped before the 30th or full refund). Suddenly its shipped & faster than originally promised. It is supposed to be arriving here by end of business  today!
We'll see.
Censored



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 26 2018 at 3:28pm
OK, It arrived Yay!
Clap
Its quite nice, in decent condition, the "rust" I thought I saw on the pics at the top of the scabbard seems to be old, dried out, masking tape residue.
(anyone got a non-destructive solvent for that stuff? Its seriously fossilized! Will something like goo gone work?)
It seems sharpened, but I'll defer to the experts on that.
The leather is in amazingly good shape considering its age, lots of surface scuffs but no deterioration I can find.
In the mounting cut there seems to be some old Cosmo even!
The hilt is actually blued, which i wasn't expecting from the pics I was sent.

The note included with it says its a "1907 MkII made by Enfield Lock (EFD) & has the oil hole (sic) in the pommel. It has the original single-stitched scabbard without retaining rivets. It rates as a 7 out of 10 for condition (Retains most of its original blued or parkerized finish with normal service wear). Its commonality is rated 3 out of 10 on a rarity scale. Rated as "relatively easy to find by a typical collector."
There is active, pitting rust on the surface of the button for the release button, which I'm addressing.
Pics, ask if you want something specific:




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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 26 2018 at 3:30pm
Opposite side, shows rust patch on lock button & masking tape (?) residue:



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 26 2018 at 3:32pm
Markings on Royal Cyper side, some very faint. If you can see "EFD" you have better eyesight than I do.



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 26 2018 at 3:33pm
Different angle/lighting:



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 26 2018 at 3:34pm
Opposite side:



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 26 2018 at 3:56pm
Better angle for the light.



-------------
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: May 26 2018 at 7:25pm
Nice clear photos, I must say.

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 29 2018 at 8:58am
Thanks, most of it is the camera. I really like this Fuji "Bridge" camera!


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 29 2018 at 11:22am
Gave the rust, paint, blade & scabbard a bit of a birthday.
It looks much better now.
Inside view



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 29 2018 at 11:22am
outside view



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 29 2018 at 11:25am
Markings close up.
There's something stamped where the makers name should be & it doesn't look like "EFD" there seem to be more than 3 letters for sure! Unfortunately so little of the stamp can be made visible it could be anything!
Can anyone else take a guess? "SANDERSON" has been suggested. Its like deciphering the Dead Sea Scrolls!
Wacko




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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: May 29 2018 at 11:44am
I still think it's probably a Sanderson. The stamp's look very similar to my October 1917 Sanderson. It's poorly struck; that's for sure. But I think I can make out the upper part's of the"NDERS". The other stamps appear similar.



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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 30 2018 at 6:44am
Yes they could be brothers! SANDERSON it will be then!


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: May 30 2018 at 3:50pm
very nice - im glad for you , it cleaned up real well , agree sanderson - thought i had posted that a while back but must have only thought to or forgot to push the pst button 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 06 2018 at 11:18am
Well, here's the finished result.
The Frog is a modern repro from IMA. They have a mixed reputation for their in-house repros, but this one (from India) is well made from some serious leather & rivets.





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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 06 2018 at 11:26am
More:




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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: June 06 2018 at 1:20pm
good job

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: June 06 2018 at 2:32pm
Looks great!

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: June 06 2018 at 9:17pm
i like the results , 


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: June 07 2018 at 10:03am
Is it supposed to have the red trim? (Makes it look "parade nice")

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 07 2018 at 2:06pm
I guess so, the leather's color is a bit off, its more "Sam Browne belt brown" than it looks. all the bare edges are RED, not just red, but RED! Quite schnazzy with the brass.
Star
This is closer to the actual colors, but its browner than this even.



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)



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