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215 gr Woodleigh and IMR4064

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Reloading
Forum Name: Reloading .303 British
Forum Description: Enfield-Rifles.com accepts NO responsibility for any loads that may be used by persons reading this forum. USE CAUTION WHEN TRYING ANY NEW LOADS!!! ANY DATA DEEMED UNSAFE WILL BE REMOVED!!!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9050
Printed Date: September 24 2018 at 5:50pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: 215 gr Woodleigh and IMR4064
Posted By: YukonScott
Subject: 215 gr Woodleigh and IMR4064
Date Posted: June 29 2018 at 10:54am
he!!o All
 
New to the forum...also getting back into hunting/reloading after a long time away. Rifle is an immaculate Parker-Hale 4 Sporter.
 
I plan to load up some 215's and wonder if any have loaded with IMR4064? Its what I have on hand now and rather than go and buy other powder would like to use it. Can't find any data on it presently...I am thinking about 37gr but not about to guess :)
 
kind regards from the Klondike...
 
Scott



Replies:
Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: June 29 2018 at 1:10pm
WELCOME to the site, Scott!

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 29 2018 at 1:17pm
Welcome aboard.
I can't find any either. Just for the 150 gr & 180 gr.
Thumbs Down
That may just mean no-one found it a suitable powder for that big ol' bruiser of a round.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 29 2018 at 3:16pm
Welcome! I recently loaded 20 brass with 215 gr CIL dinosuars an old friend gave me. 37 gr of H335. Shot them out of a No5 with open sites. Well within a 4" group at 50 and 100yds! Approximately 2015 ft/sec. I got the loading data from an old Speer manual. It was so old, on the from cover, Dad had a cardigan on and junior had a plaid shirt buttoned up all the way!


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: June 29 2018 at 4:54pm
How’s the shooting shoulder feeling after shooting those dinosaur pellets, HT?

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: June 29 2018 at 5:41pm
This from an old Lyman manual;
 


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 29 2018 at 7:26pm
Canuck, I've got pretty long arms and the No5 Battle Carbine is really light and has a pretty short stock so I have to hunker in close. I won't lie, it's a handful, but manageable! I'm also left handed. One of the eight shots I took my big thumb knuckle caught me on the nose, but all and all, it was awesome! Would not want to be on the receiving end of that chunk of lead!


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: June 29 2018 at 8:00pm
welcome , hope you enjoy the group , we are very diversified in our interests and there are a number that have interests like yours , 


Posted By: YukonScott
Date Posted: June 29 2018 at 9:31pm
he!!o and thank you for the replies....seems about 37gr will be the sweet spot but will find out...love the old rifle so will be cautious...my interests are two-fold...bear protection and possible bison hunting...appreciate the quick response...first time posted to Yukon since living here as a child in the 70's...God's country.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: June 29 2018 at 10:05pm
This is my load chart. Feel free to copy it.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: June 29 2018 at 10:08pm
If you want to try this load,find some Norma powder. This one will knock a Cape Buffalo on hits butt...


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: June 29 2018 at 10:14pm
My personal favorite rounds right here...


Posted By: pete-4d
Date Posted: June 30 2018 at 5:53am
Scott ,ran across this a few years back , haven't tried any of 215-gr woodleigh ,but I shoot the 174-gr protected point ,  different powder charges ,,,,,,, pete

https://www.msgo.com/threads/data-for-215gr-woodliegh-for-303-british.14338/" rel="nofollow - Data- for 215gr Woodliegh for .303 British | Mississippi Gun Owners


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: June 30 2018 at 6:03am
Norma # 202 is brilliant in the L-E Goosic!


Posted By: YukonScott
Date Posted: July 10 2018 at 5:46pm
Just wondering if I cover up more of the 215 with the neck of casing to make it same length as the 174 shown here will be ok...enough room for powder not withstanding...


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: July 11 2018 at 4:18am
When I loaded my 215's, I ended up with an overall length of 2.97". That length seems to feed and shoot well for my rifle.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: July 11 2018 at 5:24am
Originally posted by pete-4d pete-4d wrote:

Scott ,ran across this a few years back , haven't tried any of 215-gr woodleigh ,but I shoot the 174-gr protected point ,  different powder charges ,,,,,,, pete

https://www.msgo.com/threads/data-for-215gr-woodliegh-for-303-british.14338/" rel="nofollow - Data- for 215gr Woodliegh for .303 British | Mississippi Gun Owners

After reading this individuals near max load data,I have a simple question,why? He's attempting to put a jet pack on a bumblebee. Even with the minimum amount used in my data chart,that bullet is going to be moving at almost a half a mile a second with close to three quarters of a ton of kenetic energy when it hits you from 200 yards away. The minimum charge with IMR 4064 should be 35.0 grains. That'll give you near 2000 fps. An increase of three grains,38.0 puts the fps at close to 2200. After that and anymore powder used is waste. To understand this concept take one bullet loaded over 37.0 grains of IMR 4064 and one bullet loaded over a fully packed cartridge case of black powder. The ballistics will be close to identical. At 100 yards that 215 grain bullet is going to hit it's intended target with the same force as a Volkswagen beetle hitting a wall at 55 mph. There is no,"Golden Zone" with that fat little bullet. Stick to the basics and leave it alone. Fun fact: The .303 British rifle round has killed more dangerous big game then any other rifle round before or after it's original design, including wildcat loads...


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: July 11 2018 at 5:40am
I'm very cautious when it comes to reloading. The first thing I realize is that it is a .303. Designed for a specific purpose during a specific time. It is a very proficient round for the taking of most game, in fact all big game in North America. Are the better rounds out there? Of course. I choose the .303. In my experience, when loaded to safe zones (in regards to powder, for my rifles, usually about 70-80% max) I find good performance at the range and in the field. Just my humble opinion... but please reload safe!


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: July 11 2018 at 6:45am
Exactly HT.
Everyone has their own preference when it comes to reloads and reloading. I will always err on the caution side. I want to have fun when I'm out shooting. I don't want to come home in a bodybag because I decided I wanted to try to squeeze an extra 50 fps out of my,"Tack driving,lumbering,sometimes fly's sideways,.303 round?" The load data I supplied with the IMR4064 powder came directly out of a NORMA reloading manual and I have used that same book for damn near 35 years now. Still alive to tell you this. Let's be extremely honest hear now. The original design was to create a round that was effective at killing stuff. It was never intended to be a target round or bench rest sub MOA round. The .303 Epps and the .303 Ackley Improved? Still not too much going on for it there, ballistically speaking. You want a flat trajectory round with some speed behind it? .220 Swift,.243 Winchester,.264 Winchester Mag,. 300 Win Mag,.30-416,.338 Lapua.


Posted By: W.R.Buchanan
Date Posted: July 13 2018 at 4:35pm
I tend to look at this like Goosic. In that you don't have to push the cartridge to get excellent results.

But I go a little farther and say that you don't have to push ANY cartridge to get acceptable results.

I love people talking about Obsolete cartridges like they don't shoot bullets out anymore.

This cartridge is just as effective now as it was 100 years ago, and it is completely up to taking any game animal in N/A and especially with 215 Woodleighs. If I ever got to go Caribou Hunting in Northern Canada I would be taking my Enfield with that bullet.

Randy


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It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.


Posted By: YukonScott
Date Posted: July 18 2018 at 5:31pm
Hmm...time to measure...


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: July 20 2018 at 5:55am
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

Exactly HT.
Everyone has their own preference when it comes to reloads and reloading. I will always err on the caution side. I want to have fun when I'm out shooting. I don't want to come home in a bodybag because I decided I wanted to try to squeeze an extra 50 fps out of my,"Tack driving,lumbering,sometimes fly's sideways,.303 round?" The load data I supplied with the IMR4064 powder came directly out of a NORMA reloading manual and I have used that same book for damn near 35 years now. Still alive to tell you this. Let's be extremely honest hear now. The original design was to create a round that was effective at killing stuff. It was never intended to be a target round or bench rest sub MOA round. The .303 Epps and the .303 Ackley Improved? Still not too much going on for it there, ballistically speaking. You want a flat trajectory round with some speed behind it? .220 Swift,.243 Winchester,.264 Winchester Mag,. 300 Win Mag,.30-416,.338 Lapua.
 
I completely agree with this statement.  I would also add that one should be cautious even with published data, there is a LOT of variation in maximum charge for any particular bullet and powder combination.  I've got numerous reloading books: Sierra, Hornady, Lyman, Speer; and for some of the cartridges I load I've also got The Complete Reloading Manual that covers many bullet makers and powder makers data.  I've also got some old manuals, some go back to the late 1950's.  Powder manufacturers change their compositions over time and you should also be cautious in using old data with new powder. 
 
When I develop a new load, I review all the data I have for that particular bullet and the powder I'm using.  Always start on the low end (although be careful here too, don't use reduced loads unless you are sure the power you select is suitable for that purpose).  A chrono is a big help to confirm velocities.
 
A lesson I learned some years back is that I had reloaded and shot probably close to 1000 rounds of 174 gr. SMK with Re 15 using published data that was close to or at the max.  The accuracy in my No. 4 was very good with this load, but when I eventually chrono'ed the load it was well above 2550 fps.  I don't know what the pressure was, but it surely had to be high.  I backed way off of this load and found that accuracy was still very acceptable, even for competitive match shooting.  I had erroneously believed that best accuracy would be at or near the max. 
 
Although the Lee Enfield was not designed as a target rifle, it is very satisfactory for use in vintage Service Rifle competition; it has a long history of success in this role.  Reloading for competitive shooting takes a slightly different approach than reloading for hunting purposes.  We don't need a bullet that expands on impact.  We need consistency on the target.  Low recoil is also a significant advantage, especially in rapid fire.  Long range shooting does limit bullet selection and higher velocities have an advantage, so be careful here too. 
 
 
 


Posted By: Ranch Dog
Date Posted: July 22 2018 at 3:03am
Originally posted by YukonScott YukonScott wrote:

Just wondering if I cover up more of the 215 with the neck of casing to make it same length as the 174 shown here will be ok...enough room for powder not withstanding...
If you seat the WL 215-grain deeper to match the cartridge OAL of the other, the pressure will increase.


Posted By: W.R.Buchanan
Date Posted: July 22 2018 at 10:54am
I typically seat bullets to the cannelure.  Don't like bullets without the cannelure but I will use them if I can't get anything else. I crimp all my .303's with a Lee Collet Crimp Die, and the cannelure is a good place for that crimp to go. That's 150 and 174 gr Hornadys and 215 Woodleighs.

The 215 gr Woodleighs I have, have a cannelure and when seated to the top of that, (3.090) they will go into the magazine and feed just fine. I could seat them about .01-.02 deeper and it wouldn't hurt anything, but I don't see the need.  As far as going to the depth of the 174 gr bullets (2.925) That would definitely increase pressures.

My .02 on this.

Randy



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It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.


Posted By: Ranch Dog
Date Posted: July 31 2018 at 6:58am
Originally posted by W.R.Buchanan W.R.Buchanan wrote:

The 215 gr Woodleighs I have, have a cannelure...
Hmm, my WL of current manufacture don't have the cannelure. That is one thing I don't like about them.




Posted By: W.R.Buchanan
Date Posted: July 31 2018 at 6:42pm
Ranch Dog:  Are you "the"  "Ranch Dog" of Boolit Mould fame?

Randy


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It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.



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