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projectile seating

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allan View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 26 2007 at 4:50pm
ok guys i have a question for yas.
time permitted,last couple of nights ive been tinkering with reloading, and ive hit a grey area with the seating process(using the Lee classic loader-you know "tap- tap")
ive measured numerous mil rounds, and factory ammo and being different projectiles they all differ in overall length. the mil measures 77mm, the factory 75mm and my roll ya owns a mickey hair over 76mm.
my rollys seem to cycle through the rifle nice(without firing)as do all the other bullets ive compared to. I have a mickey hair of the grooves of the hornady projectiles showing from the case mouth.
anyone have ideas on correct seating for non press reloading?
 
 
 
 
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Tony View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2007 at 9:20pm
Allan what weight bullets are you using?  the info I have here says  150 grain head col 70.5  174 col 78 and 180 grain 78 col  sounds like you're in the ball park with the col. the rim on the heads is for crimping the cases so I wouldn't worry to much about it showing mate. Unless you want to crimp em too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hatchetman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2007 at 9:36pm
Well aunty nick harveys reloading manual......... only gives me a max case length Confused

How ever it mentions that max cartridge length is only dictated by the magazine length and how deep the rifling is.

Now my hornady reloading bible says that with their 150 grain SP pills the max COL is 2.935" so fire up your imperial to metric calculator to work out those backwards seppo units of measurement.
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allan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2007 at 10:21pm

Dang!

ok guys, im using the 150grn Hornady Soft Points, goin off your book there Hatchet its works out to be 74.5490mm.looks like i should go deeper a mm or so.  Tony thats a big difference in length for the 150 grn, is that  Hornadys data ?  does it change with different powders? as it does with projectile weights
Reload they say!!!  man ive opened up a can of worms here.
if all goes well as long as it goes bang and comes out the right end of the rifle ill be glad,if all goes wrong Dave mate ill haunt you till the end of your days LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2007 at 1:18am
CAN OF WORMS?! Theres no WORMS in re-loading!! AL! R U stuffing bullets, or U going fishin?! Trust me - you shouldn't be puttin worms in there!! LOL!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2007 at 5:41am
Seating...........the most accurate way is where the bullet is just touching the lands. This reduces bullet jump and ensures the bullet is aligned and starts down the barrel the same every time.
 
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allan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2007 at 6:41am
Hoad ya dink! LOL
I have a few data sources but they too give different measurements in oal.spose pick a medium, fire and see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2007 at 7:05am
Allen you can tie it to a saw horse and tie a string to the trigger and get way back, Kinda the way I tried out my Turkish Mausers before I bought some head space gauges.
I had a .30 Carbine blow up in my face once due to bad recipe/not following directions properly. or substituiting powders? ......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2007 at 7:38am
Allan the data I gave you is from the current Vihtavuori loading manual.  Hatchet  2.935 is equal to 74.56mm which seems a bit short to me.  The info on the Lee die set says case length 2.222 inches or 56.44mm and a col of 3.075 inches or 78.11mm.  That compares favourably with the Vit data I have for col.The Lyman data I have shows the same case length as the lee data and the same col 78.11
 As cookie says you need to seat the bullet as close to the lands as is practical to give the accuracy.
  Now I'm going out on a limb here the deeper you seat the bullet into the case the closer you get to a compression load. Some loads are compression loads which are mainly a moderately slow burning powder load. But I would be wary if you're using a medium to fast burn powder as the pressures they develope when being over compressed may be too great for the rifle. This can cause headspace problems and cases will show signs of incipient case separation.  So for what its worth mate I'd stick to the Lee Lyman col of 78.11mm it should give you good results without any problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2007 at 7:49am

I just got off Ebay, theres no bomb defuser suit on there so looks like ill have to try the string tied to the trigger trick Star

ive got the recipe spot on its just overall length that had me scratching my head.going in the middle of mil and factory loads was a starting point and i spose i can adjust increments of thous at at time to get accuracy. i found Hornady makes a tool for marking the start of your rifling thus giving spot on length for your rifle, anyone used these before?
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allan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2007 at 8:02am
thanks Tony. yes i can now see bein short would not be the way to go, with pressures and all..now if it was too long i gather it would be hard to close the bolt home.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hatchetman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2007 at 9:18am
Yeah the things cant be too long, if your round is too long and you jam the bullet into the rifling when loading it, upon firing it may cause excessive pressure!
But the winters coming,

And the snow will cover tracks,

And I'll be watching,

Because I'm hunting you



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2007 at 10:03am
If they are too long you'll have difficulty closing the bolt properly and there's a chance you'd end up with a live round jammed up the spout half in half out the chamber. You can get guages to measure the chamber length if you're really keen.  Last 1 I priced up was around £100 uk . A cheap and cheerful way is to use and empty case with no primer in it and a bullet which is reasonably tight in the neck but can be moved in or out with moderate pressure. Slip the round into the chamber slide a brass rod through the primer hole and GENTLY  tap the bullet head forward until you feel it just touch the lands. Extract the round measure the col and then knock 3 or4 of thou off. That should give you an fair indication of the chamber length but its nowhere near as accurate as a guage. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 5:15pm
AL,AL,AL!!!!!! (shakes his head sadly ) My son you have indeed wandered in to the land of Alchemy ! Rule one never ,ask about seating depths to fellow readers! It causes the Tryo to break out in Boils & in extreme cases Rickets !Question like this causes readers to scramble for their reloading manuals & notes ,sit in rooms lit with low voltage  globes & mutter strange incantations ! I'll add to the confusion ......Seat your bullet so the Cannure  grove is just sitting into the neck ! 

     Dave

   PS the over all length for a Hornady 150 gn in a .303 is  2.995" or 76.08mm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2007 at 7:58am
Listen to DaveH.
Otherwise, adjust length to best suit your individual rifle.
1. It has to fit in the magazine, feed and chamber without jamming.
2. Just barely touching the rifling if it also satisfies 1.
Work up from a starting load. Back off some if you see signs of excess pressure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2007 at 9:04am

Well put there Smokey! when I shoot my AR-15 with 75 grain projectiles loaded to seat on the riflings I have to hand feed them one at a time since they will not fit into tha magazine. But looking for accuracy not a auto loader.

CM
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