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Question about field gear??

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ozzlefinch View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 27 2014 at 8:18am
Hey all!

I have a question about the field gear of the Indian army around the 1960's.  Obviously I am interested in collecting whatever I can get to properly accessorize my 2A1.  So far, my research has yielded exactly nothing. I can't find a thing on what the average Indian infantryman would have worn during the Cold War era.  Am I to assume it's Brit gear circa '50s vintage or even WWII surplus?  Anybody have any ideas about post independence equipment?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2014 at 10:18am
IIRC  the 2A1s were issued to support troops infrantrymen got FNs.  The two pocket "drivers" rig would most likely be correct
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ozzlefinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2014 at 5:17am
Ok, that's a start.  But I must admit to a complete ignorance of the "drivers" rig. 

And also, I know the 2a1's were used also by the Indian police, any information on uniforms and equipment of that group around the same time frame?  I know for certain my rifle came from a Police armory, what it was before I have no idea.  Perhaps I can go with Indian Police gear, if not Army.

Right now I am having fun doing the research, but I keep coming up on dead ends.  The Indians are very tight lipped about both their armed services. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2014 at 6:42am
This is one; Numrich had some a while back they may still do
1950s BRITISH A.B.L Enfield 2 Pocket Ammo Pouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2014 at 8:41am
Ozzel:
I don't understand your statement when you say : "both their armed services"
They have a huge Army, big Air Force, and a sizeable Navy.
Please 'splain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ozzlefinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2014 at 9:50am
Simple typo.  It's like that when you are typing while wearing boxing gloves.  I meant 
to say "both their armed services and police" but it didn't come out that way, and once you hit "post" there is no taking it back (at least from what I can see).   I will now fall upon my sword.....Dead

Thanks for the photo, now I understand.  I've seen those for sale in a number of places.  I assume they would be on a pattern 58 belt with the usual braces and other kit?  Any ideas as to what specific units of the Indian military would have issued the 2a1?  

From what I can see in photos, the Mumbai Police used a basic khaki uniform with blue lanyard whistle thing over the left shoulder, beret sort of cap, and brown loafer shoes with a leather pistol belt. What I don't understand, and can't see in any photos, is how they carry the ammo for the 2A1?  Do they just put in in their pocket? Or don't they get issued very much to begin with?

I know this topic is a little skewed from the pure Enfield arena, but to me it's all a part of the history, and that's what makes it interesting.  Typos and all.Beer 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2014 at 11:03am
ahhh , that disrupt between our brain and what we actually type - so often my nemesis , my brain says it all so clearly but alas the fat finger f........ it up , i often blame it on old age but really its been the bane of my existence since i realized those that succeeded could baffle with BS , im with you on the typo stuff - i do it all the time , 

i did some research on the indian rifles i bought all so long ago but most of it was the colonial period far before the 2A & 2A1 rifles but i did enough research on those two prior to buying them to know i bought what i really wanted  , i recently lost all the 'favorites' i had  , i feel bad not to be able to offer much in a source , 
the rifle was and is the most modern 308 nato bolt action enfield of indian origin , its a great rifle , and its what i consider [only my personal thought here ] a bridge rifle , to the SLR 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2014 at 11:23am
What I  remember* about the 2A and 2A1 was that when India adopted the SLR and 7.62 Nato round they decided to save some cash by locally making the 2As for their support troops.  Maybe some reserve troops got them as well but the active duty infrantry got the SLR.
 
*Subject to being faulty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2014 at 11:27am
i think they also started mfgring the SLR without proper licence IIRC 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ozzlefinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2014 at 7:25pm
Yes, I think that is exactly what fascinates me about the 2A1, is that it is an excellent rifle, but it doesn't quite fit into any clear history.  With every other rifle of the Enfield family, one can find a specific military unit and a specific time frame in which it was issued. With the Ishapore, we all know it was a stopgap prior to the issuance of a new rifle for main line troops, but who exactly got one? Which unit and how were they equipped? The devil is in the details.

The best information I can find is from the  Mumbai Police.  They were still in issue as of 2010, which is the last date of information I have, but I'm not 100% confident of my sources.  In photos I found IPS officers with Ishapores standing next to vehicles from the late 90's or early 2000s, so it is not inconceivable they still have them today.  I can't find any information about when they were first issued to the Police, and what the total numbers were. 

Perhaps it would be interesting to collect the police kit instead of the military.  Or would I be mistaken for a real Indian cop when I go to the gun range??? Wink  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2014 at 11:14pm
Correct about the no license. They just reverse engineered a mishmash of inch & metric. That's why Indian parts dont fit anything except Indian rifles.

Then they got mad because FN didn't provide upgrades & tech support!Shocked
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