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Realistic Value on a SMLE Mk V

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frozentundra View Drop Down
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    Posted: November 02 2012 at 6:55am
Hi all - I posted a while back on possibly sporterizing a rifle I'd recently inherited, but that was before I learned some more about it. I'm told that what I have here is an MK V, and that it is somewhat rare. 

I am not a collector, and honestly am interested in acquiring a more modern rifle. I am considering selling this one, but have no idea where to start from a valuation perspective. In the other thread I posted asking about aftermarket furniture, numbers ranging from $600 to $2000 were thrown out, but i don't know what is realistic. Any input? 


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5thBatt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 5thBatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 8:29am
In NZ a complete good example would go for about $2400 about US$1950
Yours looks to be refinished & therefore looses some value straight away, i would offer NZ$1200 if was here in New Zealand & i didn't already have one, but as i do, i would offer no more than NZ$800.
Mine cost me about NZ$2200 in the hand from Australia.
 


Mine is a 1923, of the 3 years they manufactured these, about 6500 in 1922, 2000 in 1923 & the balance of about 11500 in 1924, makes yours the most common year encountered.
To some the year can make a difference to the value.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frozentundra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 8:53am
5th, what makes you think it was refinished? Are there some telltale signs I should look for? The lighting was odd when I took the photos, so what appears to be lighter spots in the wood are actually just reflections of light. Are there other clear indications of refinishing? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 5thBatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2012 at 9:11am
Originally posted by frozentundra frozentundra wrote:

5th, what makes you think it was refinished? Are there some telltale signs I should look for? The lighting was odd when I took the photos, so what appears to be lighter spots in the wood are actually just reflections of light. Are there other clear indications of refinishing? 
The way the wood looks & the fit, the metal is too shiny & looks buffed/polished.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2012 at 5:38am
hi , i posted some to the other thread but see you are being very upfront here , so i will add some to 5ths points for you ,
 
i too would consider it refinished for his reasons both wood and metal , but i would also offer less for some other reasons , you dont show nor mention matching serials - very important in LE rifles ,
the repair on the upper handguard [while arsenal done] detracts from a mint collector piece , its missing the piling swivel , there is no marking disc and does not appear to be a filler there [that makes it a later buttstock] not neccessarily incorrect but not its 1924 buttstock ,
 
, while it has its cutoff we do not know without looking close if its the correct one , we need to see the rear sight close to insure its complete and functional , there are a few marked parts that we need to see - safety for one ,
 
while all are robably findable they take searching for and knowing what you are looking at , im thinking a $600-750 rifle in my area ,
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frozentundra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2012 at 6:13am
That's all great information - thanks to both of you for being so candid and helpful! 

FWIW, The numbers do all match, and I don't think there are any repairs on the upper hand-guard, unless I'm missing something. (Where do you see the repair?) 

Although the marking disk is indeed gone, the disk filler is there, it's just tough to see in the photo because of the reflection. The rear sight is complete and functional, and I suspect the cutoff is original and functioning perfectly as well. 

This was a rifle issue to, owned and carried by my wife's grandfather in WW2 and he was in possession of it until he passed, so I don't think there have ever been any modifications made to it. (Can't be 100% certain, but that 's my strong suspicion.)  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 5thBatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2012 at 1:25pm
The difference between a MkIII cutoff & a MkV cutoff is the 'spotting' hole,  the MkV doesn't have one.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2012 at 1:33pm
5thBatt, those are nice examples! Thanks for the nice picture!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 5thBatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2012 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by Canuck Canuck wrote:

5thBatt, those are nice examples! Thanks for the nice picture!
Thanks, the top rifle is a 1907 BSA MkIII, one of my favorites.
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2012 at 11:02pm
good , you have established some facts that were not visible in your photos , thats why one needs to handle these high end collectible elements of a collection to be certain ,
 
the sight in complete/working condition is a plus , the stock disc , even though filled is a plus [actually that filler confirms WWII use better than any story] most will tell you that we buy the rifles not the story unless documented , its not common for a serviceman to have come home with his issued rifle , there are exceptions of coarse , just uncommon ,
 
you now have a photo to compare the cutoff with to see if its correct [i did not have a good one to post] thanks 5th , i did not mean to imply that it would not work , even an incorrect one propperly fit would work fine , its more about the details of these  special trials rifles that i was trying to impart to you ,
 
as to the upper handgard repair - it may have been the other thread , but there was what will appear as a cross cut [curf type cut] with a darker wood filler just forward of the knox form , its a period correct repair to a cracked handgard , this is not a huge deal , just a detail collectors see and it does affect the perceived value in the discernings mind , i have a number of rifles with these as the cracks were common in that fragile piece ,
 
in my photo of the safety , if you look closely , and compare with others , you will see the distinctions between the mkV and mkIII / III*
 
last but not least - you can see the diferance in finish of both metals and wood in the photos posted above ,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frozentundra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2012 at 3:25am
Hmmmm. Well according to the info above, the MKV doesn't have a spotting hole, but as you can see, mine does. So that means the mag cutoff was replaced at some point? (Or it was drilled for a spotting hole later, maybe?) Weird. Here are some other photos I took this morning.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frozentundra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2012 at 3:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2012 at 7:41am
thanks , adds some more data , i 'think' your safety looks correct , not positive but you can compare it to mine and confirm ,
 
i now see the disc repair , its funny how photos can conceal things , or reveal them at times too
 
its the cutoff you would expect on the mkIII so its possible it was changed , deleted then added back at some point ,
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2012 at 11:35pm
What is that marking on the top of the receiver ring? Pic is a bit fuzzy. Is it a crown over BNP?

If so, the rifle has been nitro proofed (Birmingham Nitro Proof) post 1954 for the commercial market, which would conflict with the story of the serviceman bringing it home after WWII.

Can you pull off the rear handguard and post a pic of the barrel markings underneath it?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frozentundra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2012 at 7:54am
Yes, it's a crown. (There's a clearer picture on the other thread wherein I asked about aftermarket furniture.) So nitro proofed in Birmingham? Can you help me understand what that means exactly, Englishman? What might I see under the rear hand guard?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2012 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by frozentundra frozentundra wrote:

Yes, it's a crown. (There's a clearer picture on the other thread wherein I asked about aftermarket furniture.) So nitro proofed in Birmingham? Can you help me understand what that means exactly, Englishman? What might I see under the rear hand guard?
 
All guns sold into the civillian market in the U.K. have to be tested with over-pressure rounds to ensure functioning safety. There are (or were) 2 locations for the performing of the proof testing. One was in Birmingham, the other in London. Whichever factory (proof house) did the test stamped thier identification on the gun so the buyer would know it had passed the proof testing & was safe to use. The London  proof house used an "NP" for nitro proofed, stamp. The Birmingham proof house used a "BNP" for "Birmingham Nitro Proofed" (frequently incorrectly ID' as British Nitro Proof). "Nitro" indicated the rifle was proofed for modern smokless (cordite, or Nitrocellulose) powder, not the earlier black powder versions.
 
The crown was added at some date so earlier proofs may say "NP" or "BNP" without the crown, I forget the date when the crown was added, but it was a while back.
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