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Rechambering an Efielnd

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shotgunminister View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 04 2006 at 11:05am

Another impraticle idea from the mind of Sho†gun Minis†®.  I had the idea the other day to find and old Enfield with the barrel shot out and rechamber it for 30-30.  I would not consider this on a rifle in good shape but if the barrel was shot out anyway what would ya'll think of just removing the old worn out barel and replacing it with a .30 caliber barrel blank. Then havng the barrel blank chambered for 30-30?  My Enfield will actualy chamber and extract a 30-30 empty case.  The only issue I can see other then the barrel is that the mag would need to be reworked and/or replaced with a custom built mag.  The 30-30 is a rimmed cartridge so that is one thing in favor of the idea.  So aside from replacing te barrel and reworking the magizine is there anything else that would need to be done that I am over looking?

 

I've seen the future and I don't like it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 303carbine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 1:04pm

I think what I may do with my Longbranch with the semi-pitted barrel is have the barrel reamed out to 8mm (.323) and have the chamber opened to accept 8mm sized slugs. I will still keep the .303 case just neck it up to 8mm. I have resized .303 brass and then run it through my 8mm die but only enough to expand the neck. It worked like a charm I even have a dummy round loaded with a 170 grain  8mm bullet.

So it will be a wildcat.........   8mm-303 or .323-311 or 311 -8mm....well you get the idea.

Anyone have any thoughts on this conversion ????

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote POPS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 2:26pm
HAD a #5 that was opened up to .303EPPS improved.(named after the builder ELLWOOD EPPS. the round had about 10% more capacity, .i did not find it too interesting.   GIBBS,in the states have reworked some #1 and#4 ,s  to look like #5 jungle carbines and have chambered them in .308(7.62)  and 45/70.   check out their sight .i believe its GIBBS RIFLES.COM  they will send catalog.  POPS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 3:53pm
[QUOTE=303carbine]

I think what I may do with my Longbranch with the semi-pitted barrel is have the barrel reamed out to 8mm (.323) and have the chamber opened to accept 8mm sized slugs. I will still keep the .303 case just neck it up to 8mm. I have resized .303 brass and then run it through my 8mm die but only enough to expand the neck. It worked like a charm I even have a dummy round loaded with a 170 grain  8mm bullet.

So it will be a wildcat.........   8mm-303 or .323-311 or 311 -8mm....well you get the idea.

Anyone have any thoughts on this conversion ????


 There were 8mm -303 Wild cats over here many years ago . My Dad used one for many years in his days of Pro shooting. It makes sense as lets face it a  .303 is a 7.7  so it isn't out of the realms of reality. Unlike the Loudensplickenboomer (460 Weatherbymag necked down to .224 ! My mates & I really have too much time on our hands & should not be left in a room full of dies without adult supervision ) AS for the 30-30 this is something I've pondered over the years from time to time,given you would not be restricted to the design  of bullets  I think really only modifications to the mag would  be needed

      Dave

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kombi76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2006 at 8:13am

I can't see why a 303/8mm or 303/323 couldn't work quite well. It would be similar in power to the 8x57JRS, the rimmed version of the 8x57, I'd imagine. You may even get a bit more power due to the fact the bore is slightly larger and would cause less resistant force.

As far as the 30-30 conversion goes, you'd have to have the mag adjusted for the shorter round and as the 30-30 rim diameter is 34 thou smaller than the 303's .540" rim you have to have the extractor altered too.

Chuck Hawks once described the 303 to the unfamiliar as a supercharged 30-30. For this reason I think it's a little pointless to chamber the 30-30 in a SMLE.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2006 at 11:48pm
Folks are beginning to do 7.62x54r conversions I hear. Don't know any
specifics but it seems workable if the pressure figures jive.   This would
be a good way to get a cheap to feed No.4 if it works.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kombi76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2006 at 9:39am

I would run screaming from a SMLE chambered to 7.62x54R, even a No.4. This cartridge is on equal footing with a 30-06. To make it worse, a significant amount of the surplus ammo for the 7.62 Russian is machine gun ammo and is SUPER hot. It tests the limits of the M/N 91/30s let alone a poor old Lee Enfield.

While later models of No.4 were chambered for 7.62 NATO, the NATO cartridge is loaded up to 10,000 psi lower than the factory 308 cartridge and the metalurgy in the later No.4s is also significantly better. Realise that WW2 era rifles were intended for a cartridge of pressures no higher than 45,000 psi.........48,000 to 49,000 psi at a stretch. 

This reminds me disturbingly of all those Spanish FR8s chambered to 7.62 CETME, which is almost identical to 7.62 NATO and 308 Win in cartridge dimensions, but operates at 45,000 psi. People started running factory 308 through them and wondering why the headspace was growing and bolt lug was stretching.........yep, ONE bolt lug. Sound familiar? At least the FR8 lug is at the front. The SMLE is at the rear........

In Victoria, the southern most eastern mainland state, the gun registry now demands that all people wishing to rechamber a rifle to a different cartridge have it ratified by them. It is because of down right dangerous stunts like this sort of thing that these sort of rules have come in. Chamber a P14 for 7.62x54R but do NOT screw with No.4s for this.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2006 at 4:24pm
Kombi has hit the nail on the head with this one ! I would look a a Pat 14/17 for a converstion like that

 Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 7:06am
Note disclaimer "if the pressure figures jive". Luckily, not everyone lives
where the nanny state decrees what sort of rifles they may fire. Some
folks just proof their rifle before firing themselves.

Also, the FR8 is a three lug '98 Mauser clone. You must be thinking of
the '95 Mauser actioned Guardia Civil carbine rechambered to 7.62. That
one has two lugs, as do the '91's, '94's, and '96's.

Finally, the L42A1 sniper/police 7.62x51 NATO no. 4s were made up on
existing ww2 vintage actions, as were the Canadian No. 4 target rifles in
the same cal. Note the year on the receiver ring on the example in these
pics....http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/ri19.htm

Edited by 303hunter - March 21 2006 at 7:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kombi76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 7:06pm

Originally posted by 303hunter 303hunter wrote:

Also, the FR8 is a three lug '98 Mauser clone. You must be thinking of
the '95 Mauser actioned Guardia Civil carbine rechambered to 7.62. That
one has two lugs, as do the '91's, '94's, and '96's.

Finally, the L42A1 sniper/police 7.62x51 NATO no. 4s were made up on
existing ww2 vintage actions, as were the Canadian No. 4 target rifles in
the same cal. Note the year on the receiver ring on the example in these
pics....http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/ri19.htm

Thanks you're right.

But the facts still stand that the FR8s were designed for 7.62 CETME not 7.62 NATO. We're talking about 10,000 psi difference. They also have a reputation for soft metallurgy. Anyone using 308 Win factory loads in an FR8 is nuts as they're hotter again than 7.62 Nato.

Furthermore, the metallurgy in the No.4 and the action design is significantly stronger than a No.1 MkIII. And yet I'd STILL be cautious using factory 308 ammo rather than NATO military ammo. But then we all have to choose whether we're satisfied to pull the trigger with the ammo we use.

BTW, for those who are able to proof there own firearms, great. Personally I don't have the equipment to do such a thing, however easy or hard that may be. It's part of the reason my 1914 ShtLE is loaded way back. I figure that over 90 years of use in varying conditions don't make for ideal preservation methods. No offence but prevention is better than a rifle bolt in the eyesocket.



Edited by kombi76 - March 21 2006 at 7:12pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jona Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2006 at 9:14am
The FR8 can handle NATO 308 no problem.  It is the FR7 that can't.  FR8 is from large ring mausers, the FR7 is from small ring mausers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kombi76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2006 at 1:04pm

I am corrected once again.

Yes, the FR8 was chambered for 7.62 NATO, but not NATO 308 or any other misinterpretation of the name.

308 is understood to mean the .308 Winchester, a cartridge heavily based on 7.62 NATO but by no means identical. The NATO round has an average maximum pressure of 50,000 psi. Yep, not that far above the 45,000 to 46,000 psi limits usally set for the M93, M94, M95 and M96 Mausers and most of the SMLE rifles. As such it's a safe rechamber.

308 Winchester has an average maximum of.............62,000 psi!!!

That means if you load 308 factory ammo into your 7.62 NATO chambered rifles, particularly those originally chambered for cartridges in the 46,000 psi range, you should keep an eye on the head space and hope that it was built on a day that the boys were being careful when doing the hardening. 

For more info on why 308 factory ammo aint such a good idea in weaker 7.62 NATO rifles check out this link....

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2006/308vs762nato/index. asp


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