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Re-Chambering

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BM59_Fan View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 03 2009 at 12:49am
Gentlemen,

I am seriously considering rechambering my #4 Shooter in 7.62x54R and want to check and see if you all think that the receiver is strong enough to handle the mil-surp carts available on the market.

Ciao,

Mike Spivey
Las Vegas NM

 
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Smokey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2009 at 1:57am
The base of the cartridge is larger than the 303 British, and it has a higher working pressure.
Force = Pressure X Area.
 
In other words, I wouldn't do it. You'll be putting a lot more stress on the action.
Look for headspace to increase. A rear-locking action will have some "spring, and will probably stretch when pushed too hard. Cheaper and better to get a Moisin Nagant rifle.
 
What you could is pull the ammo down for powder and bullets.
I have no idea what to measure for a charge of the powder in .303 British, but the bullets will work fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2009 at 2:52am
No chance the pressures would blow the action to bits in your face!! The bolt will fly back possibly embedding in your face, shrapnel flying around possibly injuring bystanders too. I have seen a rifle blow and I don't want to see or hear of it again! My lads Dragurnov Tigre is 762x54 and the amount of powder used to throw a 155 grain lapua bullet down range is 19% higher than the amount used in my remington using same size bullets and 18% higher than the 303 using 174 grain bullets.  Both loads using same powder Vit 140 and same same primers. The remington has a substantially stronger action than the enfield but I still wouldn't stress it using the high pressures used by the 762x54R.   
Rottie (PitBulls dad.)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BM59_Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2009 at 5:12am
Thanks Guys,

Really was not sure about the cartridge pressures, esp the mil surp loads.  Depending where I looked the 7.62x54r was either the same as the .303 Brit in pressures OR was about 10-15% more.  I did notice that the pressures were less than 7.62 NATO which made me consider the rechamber since the Cart (7.62x56R)  sits somewhere between .303 British and 7.62 NATO and some #4 Rifles were arsenal rebarreled to fire 7.62 NATO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2009 at 5:56am
762 Nato pressures are around 50,000 psi 762x54 are 57,000psi, 303 are around 42000psi. Giving a minimum of 7000psi over pressure on 762 nato or a maximum of 15000psi overpressure on 303. Think thats a lot more than your information allowed for and way over any safety magin built into the enfield recievers.
Rottie (PitBulls dad.)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BM59_Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2009 at 6:16am
Tony,

Thanks!!  I think that the sites where the data is posted are confusing CUP and PSI in their tables or are converting them wrong.  Looks like I will keep the original chambering!!Unhappy 

I have three Enfields Two #1s (a SMLE N01Mk3 (1918) and a NO1Mk3* (1943) and the No4Mk2.  I was hoping to be able to shoot cheap surplus out of at least one of them again.

Mike Spivey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2009 at 6:50am
Get some reloading equipment instead. After the current panic has subsided a little and components are available again (I hope) you can tailor ammo to do whatever you want (within safe limits).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BM59_Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2009 at 11:20am
Smokey all ready do that, have been for the last 30 years.  My whole idea was the inexpensiveness or the 7.62x54R round, like .303 Brit used to be!!  Best laid plans of mice and men!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2009 at 6:21pm
Dunno what you class as cheap. Russian Milsurp is around £25 sterling/100 here in the uk. Similar price to the 303 milsurp if and when you can get it. My lad was waffling on about getting a case of Russian stuff and stashing it until I pointed out he can only buy 500 at a time and 600 to keep at any 1 time on his ticket. So he planned on me having half on my ticket to level it out. Where we'd store a 900 round case of ammo is a mystery to me lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2009 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by BM59_Fan BM59_Fan wrote:

Gentlemen,

I am seriously considering rechambering my #4 Shooter in 7.62x54R and want to check and see if you all think that the receiver is strong enough to handle the mil-surp carts available on the market.

Ciao,

Mike Spivey
Las Vegas NM

 
 

Mike,

As everyone above stated this is an unwise idea. I see you are heeding their warnings. If you are wanting to re-chamber your Enfield try necking it down to .25 or .22 calibers. Those smaller rounds produce significantly less working pressures thus making it safer.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BM59_Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2009 at 9:58pm
Cheap for me is 440 rounds of 7.62x54R for $85.00 or if I buy 880 rounds $165.00.  That would work out to £57 sterling/440 or £111 sterling/880.  I have no restrictions on the amount of ammunition I can store.  I probably have 5000 loaded rounds of 7.62NATO just for my 7.62 NATO chambered M1 Garand.   Below is one source I have used before:
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/products_id/1789

Ciao,

Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2009 at 10:14pm
You're lucky UK restrictions on weapons and ammo tend to be very tight. We are both lucky with our ammo allowance. The local constabulary know I'm not a nutcase and my 18 year old son and another shooter are under my supervision ( at the request of the police) until I'm satisfied they're safe to let loose on their own. 
Rottie (PitBulls dad.)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2009 at 7:04am
Tony I must have over 30,000 rounds of ammo here on the farm... an assortment of every thing I have to shoot.... the majority of it would be in .22 cal Russian ammo , had 3 tins of that stuff still have 2 unopened. the rest would go from 7.62x54 russian ,.303 Enfield ,7.62x51 , 7.62x39 , 7mm Rem. Mag. , 8mm Mauser , 7.62x38 , 9x18 , 9x19 , .38 special , .30-.30 , 6.5x55 , .32 acp ,.45 L/C assorted shot gun shells.... I think thats all ......
And to top it off I also have an assortment in the shop case that I sell..... and also means I have to make another ammo order here shortly...
"White Rhino"

"Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2009 at 7:33am
Cookie Monster,
I was just thinking about what to do if I ever wear out the barrel of my '55 Fazakerly.
Decided I would put on a barrel for the 30-40 Krag. I would have a regular 30cal bore, could use all my .303 brass, and the existing magazine etc. would work with no modifications. Might even try a polygon bore. The Japanese Type 99 is an excellent shooter with that type of rifling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2009 at 7:17pm
You're so Lucky Rhino.  Maximum 22 ammo I can have is 500 to purchase 600 to keep, same with all the other calibres we have 222, 243, 303, 308. 762x54. BUT now lad has his ticket we can double the amounts. Strange thing is we can buy shotgun ammo by the 1000 and nobody bothers. As we all know most bank robberies are usually sawn off shotguns or pistols nobody lugs a rifle around it's too obvious so why restrict rifle ammo? Crazy restrictions in a crazy world.
  
Rottie (PitBulls dad.)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2009 at 6:56am
Tony, I forgot a few other calibers...  forgot about Boogies .243 Handy Rifle that He took His first Deer with...also forgot the 7.62x25 ammo also... just got in 1240 rounds of that to add to the 800 round case I have stored and the remnants of another 800 round can.
I got 3 CZ-52 pistoles one in 9mm (9x19) and the other 2 in 7.62x25 . One of the CZ-52 pistols are for My Son Boogie. I went half in on the $$$ for it so he would have another pistol to shoot other than His Neos U-22 Berreta in .22 cal ....
 
I dont know what I would do if I had restrictions on the amount of ammo I could keep on hand....
and your right about the robberies and bank hold ups... Shot gun is the prefered weapon.....from what I have seen.... Guess they go for impressions ..........
"White Rhino"

"Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields
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