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reloading .303 with pulled 7.62x54r bullets

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archertiger3 View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 18 2012 at 1:26pm
i have some 7.62x54r russian 148 grain bullets. has anyone ever used the pulled bullets in their enfield? i have a savage no4 mk1* i am going to start reloading for. i'm going to get some partizan ammo, fire form it, then reload with those cases. these are .311 148 grain bi-metal jacketed boat tail bullets.

has anyone tried this before? i'm hoping to get some good groups with this ammo. my bore is very good on this gun. eventually i also want to cast bullets for this gun (more economical)

i am new to this forum, and i hope you welcome having me

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Cookie Monster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2012 at 1:31pm
Yes I have reused pulled bullets as long as they are not deformed or damaged
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote archertiger3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2012 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by Cookie Monster Cookie Monster wrote:

Yes I have reused pulled bullets as long as they are not deformed or damaged


no they're not damaged. what kind of accuracy did you get?  these bullets look very good
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2012 at 9:22pm
Just be aware some older, more worn 2-groove barrels don't like BT bullets.
Its a bit of a crap shoot till you know your individual bore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArcherSix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2012 at 7:30am
Shamu beat me to the boat tail comment, and Welcome to the boards!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 303Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2012 at 6:12pm
The bullets I am using are boat tail but not overly so.


This one was fired in my 'rust textured' bore rifle.  The rust has not actually altered the profile of the throat and this rifle shoots them pretty accurately.  These are 180gr  PRVI Partisan bullets.  They have a fairly blunt nose, almost semi-spitzer which probably helps.  They are .310 diameter so I was surprised they shot so well but when I found the bullet jacket I realised how large the support area on the bullet was.  The bullet did not fill the groove which is closer to .318.   I have some 308 boat tail's I'm going to try in it one day.  Those are long and pointy with a long tail.  I don't hold out much hope for them.  But 148gr boat tails may have way too short a bearing surface and too much jump into the leade for bullet alignment.  Only one way to find out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2012 at 11:32pm
I your groove diameter is running that large I would avoid using them as the gas seal will be poor and bore wear may be accelerated.  The most accurate bullets (generally) are the 174-180 flat bases in my 303s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2012 at 6:27am
Who makes the flat base bullets? I am using Sierra Match kings which are boat tailed, they do work well in my rifle, but I would like to experiment with some flat base ones in the 174 or 180 range.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2012 at 8:36am
I wish I could find some. I ended up going to 150 Gr ones just to get the flat base.Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2012 at 10:15am

The Sierra 180 Grain Pro Hunter is Flat Based as is the Speer 180 Grain and the Hornady 174 Grain, Being in Europe you may be able to get the Sellier and Belloit 180 FMJ which is (was) flat based last time I checked.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 303Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2012 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by SW28fan SW28fan wrote:

I your groove diameter is running that large I would avoid using them as the gas seal will be poor and bore wear may be accelerated. ...
No, the two-groove was made that way to accommodate the bullet being swaged by the bore.  It doesn't matter if the groove gets eroded in these barrels because the bullet never contacts the groove.  I also wonder whether gas escape is what keeps pressure in these barrels within acceptable limits?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2012 at 3:53am
Thank you for the info SW28fan. I will speak to my local gun shop. Let you know how I get on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote muffett.2008 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2012 at 7:48am
This bullet recovered by 303guy, is a perfect example of debunking that BT v FB myth.
 Note the areas marked, from the left, maximum bump, on either type of projectile, occurs here, if a flat base, then the rear obturates and gives the effects of arrows centre and right.
 If a boatail, it creates a pressure bump at the rear contact point, centre arrow and a sealing ridge as shown in right arrow.
 All current problems with inaccuracy these days are directly attributed to poor ammunition selection, poor reloading practice.ie: not duplicating the original spec's, or sloppy or worn out barrels.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2012 at 9:51pm
When I was able to recover most of a jacketed bullet, I also found evidence of swelling at the rearmost part of where the jacket is in contact with the barrel. Long range accuracy can be a different isse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LE Owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2012 at 1:12am
I get excellent accuracy using the 147-148 gr steel core boat tail bullets in my Savage two groove barrel. These are the only boat tail bullets that will work with my Savage.
 
As .303 guy says the broad lands of the two groove bore compress the body of the bullet extruding the jacket and core deeper into the grooves.
The steel core soviet bullet has a sheath of lead between jacket and core. The core acts as a mandrel so the lead pushes against the jacket forcing it deeper into the narrow grooves.
You can tell if your bullets have the steel core by examining the exposed base of the core in the open base of the jacket. A steel needle will not scratch the base of the steel core. You will likely see a small amount of lead around the base of the core, this is part of the lead sheath mashed out during the manufacturing process. I scrape away the flash while I'm at it.
My 147 gr bullets all from the same lot of ammo miked at .3125, which may not be common for these.
 
Soviet 7.62 bullets were designed for use in worn or over sized bores, and are an excellent choice for the Enfields.
 
The crimping cannelure of the 147 gr bullet is too far back from the nose to allow seating to the groove while maintaining the proper OAL of the .303 cartridge.
I seat mine to a OAL of 3" , with cannelure below the case mouth, and this works fine.
I don't crimp my handloads anyway, instead using a tight neck sizer and a homemade expander that leaves the neck very tight.
 
Flat base bullets are usually the best choice for the .303, but the Soviet bullet is an exception.
 
Inaccuracy with boat tail bullets is most often due to oversized bore and blowby caused by eroded throats.
The MkVII ammunition used a card between bullet base and charge which served to provide a momentary seal as the bullet bumped up and passed through the throat. This all but eliminated blowby.
Over the charge cards are not feasible when boat tail bullets are used.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2012 at 6:16am
To answer the question that was originally asked:
I've used the pulled bullets from 7.62x54R ammo with good accuracy.
They mike out at about 0.312 and seem to work fine in my 0.314 groove dia. barrel.
Extensive tests have proven that the copper-clad soft steel does not wear barrels any more than regular jacketed bullets. The Swiss use copper-clad soft steel for their military ammo. In many cases they give lower pressures than a regular jacketed bullet of the same weight, all other things (powder charge, cases, primers etc.) being the same.
I won't hesitate to use them in barrels with a groove diameter over 0.310.
 
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