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Rust clean-up - how to stop?

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Canuck View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2015 at 8:02pm
Sounds gnarly!
Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2015 at 5:48am
It's nasty, there is no cure ever once you have it you can relapse randomly for the rest of your life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddyofurniture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2015 at 8:23am
I am a bit old as I still use LSA and a still have a bit remaining.

Nothing wrong with a good old grease, GAA.
Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2015 at 8:43am
Originally posted by paddyofurniture paddyofurniture wrote:

I am a bit old as I still use LSA and a still have a bit remaining.

Nothing wrong with a good old grease, GAA.


Where did you get yours from ???  I have a few quarts I got from an old German/American shared depot in Germany !!!!!!     the writing on it is in German !!!!  but the can is OD green like the ones we had !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddyofurniture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2015 at 8:49am
Originally posted by White Rhino White Rhino wrote:

Originally posted by paddyofurniture paddyofurniture wrote:

I am a bit old as I still use LSA and a still have a bit remaining.

Nothing wrong with a good old grease, GAA.


Where did you get yours from ???  I have a few quarts I got from an old German/American shared depot in Germany !!!!!!     the writing on it is in German !!!!  but the can is OD green like the ones we had !!!


I "obtained it" from a goverment source for doing a side job on their WWII truck.
Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2015 at 10:58am
Originally posted by paddyofurniture paddyofurniture wrote:

Originally posted by White Rhino White Rhino wrote:

Originally posted by paddyofurniture paddyofurniture wrote:

I am a bit old as I still use LSA and a still have a bit remaining.

Nothing wrong with a good old grease, GAA.


Where did you get yours from ???  I have a few quarts I got from an old German/American shared depot in Germany !!!!!!     the writing on it is in German !!!!  but the can is OD green like the ones we had !!!


I "obtained it" from a goverment source for doing a side job on their WWII truck.


Cool!!! Great to know Im not the only one who still uses that stuff !!!
"White Rhino"

"Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pukka Bundook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2015 at 7:53am
With any of our old guns /rifles, we don't want to be too hard on any old finish there is remaining, so best steer clear of Naval jelly and such.
ATF will break down most rust.
The way I see it, on some of our guns, the rust took a long time getting there, so we can't expect it to be instantly gone without being very severe. Best take our time, use them, clean 'em, oil 'em, and in time the rust will go.
Use the ATF and leave it on the rusty bits if possible.
When cleaning, give these areas an extra good rubbing with an oily rag.
In time they will look much better, Without hurting the overall looks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2015 at 11:52am
Petroleum jelly was original spec rust prevention for the Lee Enfields and Rangoon oil to lubricate the moving parts.

I picked up on this wonderful stuff some time ago when checking out an old boy's bayonet collection. He had each blade in the scabbard with a light coating of Vaseline. Clear, clean, almost odourless and tasteless. It will wipe off easily with a rag. Some blades hadn't seen the light of day in twenty years, none of them had any sign of rust and came clean with a wipe.

I had a couple of revolvers in holsters in a safe. Horror! I took them out one day and they had rust where they had contact with the holsters. I cleaned off the rust, no damage. Lightly smeared them and put away. No problems since.

Cosmoline is petroleum jelly with additives, I believe.

I also protect my hand tools in the shed with a wipe down and a hand rub with some jelly in my palm. Parts in the spares bins gets a smearing of petroleum jelly when they get put away. It really is good stuff, it sticks like schmit to a blanket and never dries up.

Oil and fine steel wool to remove rust. Crusty stuff I use the mouth of a brass cartridge as a scraper, clean and apply petroleum jelly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2015 at 1:41pm
I think Cosmo is Lanolin-based. It might well also have petroleum jelly in it though.
The original Petroleum jelly suggested isn't quite Vaseline but "Red petroleum", but it is a a first cousin. AFAIK its no longer available, so Vaseline is probably a good substitute..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2015 at 2:00pm
If it doesn't stop the rust at least he'll have soft hands!Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2015 at 7:54pm
amen to that - nothing like the soft hands - long as they dont smell of WD40 - or so says my wife , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2015 at 10:31am
Ya, I do smell like guns apparantly. 

I hope that means I smell like BLO, gun oil and Hoppes No.9 and not like black powder smoke!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Von Gruff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2015 at 11:03am
This is another  situation where Ed's red on triple O steel wool will remove the surface rust and continued gentle rubbing will work to kill it (if you cant boil it off to make it into blueing, that is) . One of the many uses you will find for it in the gun room and it makes a great handcleaner as well. Cheap and very effective.
 
Ed's Red recipe
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thudhugger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2016 at 10:33pm
So, I've been reading all the comments and thought I'd weigh in.  I picked up some barrelled actions that were covered in rust (some worse than others).  I thought that I could combine the actions and rebuild one out of the bunch.  Because of the level of rust, cleaning was going to require a lot of elbow grease or sandblasting. 
I opted to work smarter rather than harder and built a large electrolysis tank.  It only took 12 hours per barrelled action, every flake of rust was removed with no damage to the action.  Afterwards, I cleaned the actions with soap and hot water (I used a green kitchen scrubbie to remove all the black sludge left over from the electrolysis process) and oiled the action with gun oil.  
After that I found that all the barrelled actions were able to be rebuilt, so now I have several rainy day projects ahead of me.
Best way I've found to remove lots of rust. 

Electrolysis tank
a. 1 lg plastic tank (got mine from "The Evil Empire" Walmart) it was 31" x 18" x 20".  I would have liked it to be a bit longer as the barrelled actions were 32" but couldn't find one.
b. Two 20" pieces of rebar 
c. Some rebar tie wire (I got a spool of this wire awhile back, it's easy to use and can be bent over the sides of the tank.
 d. wood dowel 24" long (I use this to span across the center of the tank and suspend the metal part from)
e. electrical tape (because of the 20 gallons of water needed to cover the metal parts in my project, the tanks walls began to get pushed wider and wider apart, so to keep the integrity of the tank I used electrical tape to strap across the tank and keep them from spreading)
f. 12 volt battery charger
g. Baking Soda (I had to literally bake out the bi-carbonate out of the baking soda to make soda ash for the electrolysis to work.  Simply pour the baking soda into a pie plate or cookie sheet with walled edges and bake it at 400 degrees for an hour) use 1 tablespoon per gallon of water.
h. enough insulated electrical wire to span across to the two rebar pieces and lay along the bottom of the tank.


Set the tank level on the floor, take the two pieces of rebar and using the tie wire tie each end of both of the rebar leaving enough wire to allow the rebar to set level and 2" above the bottom of the tank.

connect the insulated wire from one rebar to the other.  leave enough wire so that it lays on the bottom of the tank.

suspend your rusty metal part or parts by using the dowel of wood and a piece of the tie wire into the center of the tank.  DO NOT LET THE PARTS TOUCH THE REBAR or the tie wires suspending the rebar throughout this process!!

mix 1 tablespoon of soda ash into a gallon of water, mix until dissolved and add it to the tank.  Continue this process until the rusty parts are thoroughly covered with the water solution.

now, connect the Positive RED lead from the unplugged battery charger to one of the tie wires suspending the rebar.  do not let the red lead get wet.  I leave enough length of wire outside the tank suspending the rebar pieces to connect to ensuring that the lead doesn't get wet.

connect the negative BLACK lead to the tie wire attached to the rusty parts. This lead can get wet but if your tie wire is wrapped around the dowel above the water mixture it won't need to be wet.

finally inspect that the parts aren't touching the rebar or suspension wires and plug the battery charger in.  within a minute or so you'll see bubbles begin to come up off the parts.  This means that the electrolysis is working to pull the rust off the parts and onto the rebar.  

Warning!  The cute bubbles are hydrogen gas so make sure to be using your tank in a well ventilated area away from any open flames.  It's not a lot of hydrogen (not like the Hindenburg) but better safe than sorry.  I just left a window open that night.

this process takes a few hours to a full day depending on the rustiness of the parts.  In the end, the bottom of the tank and the rebar pieces will be covered with rust and the parts will be black and slimey but totally free of rust.
unplug the battery charger, remove the parts and clean with soap and water.  dry thoroughly and oil immediately.

I'll try and post some pictures when I get the chance to help you get a better idea of what the tank looks like.
Also, there are some awesome youtube videos on the process that I would recommend you watch.

Thudhugger 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2016 at 6:54am
Good description. I use electrolysis a lot. I can't say enough positive things about it.

It is the same process as used by museums to derust shipwreck cannon. The subject item can be left in there for long times without any consequence to the parent metal. I actually like the dark steel grey finish left on the metal. Reminds me of old swords and armour on display in the museum (go figure).

For a tank long enough to hold a musket, I simply make a long thin heavy cardboard box with an open top and line it with vapour barrier or a black garbage bag opened up along its length.

The process is so simple and effective, people just dont believe it. Rusted barrles can be cleaned out using a steel rod inserted into the bore. I use fat rubber o rings spaced along the rod to keep it from touching the bore wall.

The only drawback is that spring steel can be effected, or so I have been told. The answer is reportedly to bake the spring steel in an oven at 450c afterwards for a few hours. I have done so and so far, never had any brittle fracture of the springs. So best to remove springs first if you can, to avoid them getting brittle.

I have de rusted siezed actions and complete revolvers. The process will even release frozen screws.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2016 at 6:30pm
"Real lemon" juice that's in the little plastic lemon shaped containers cleans right down to the bare metal over night(12hrs),and cheap!
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