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Service load duplication

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Long branch View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 26 2014 at 11:08am
I'm a relative newcomer here, but I've been playing with surplus rifles for as long as I've been of legal age to buy them. I've been reloading almost as long. I've reloaded for mausers, enfields, and 1 Swiss k31. I've always found that surplus rifles shoot best with the loads they were designed for. I always try to duplicate these loads. There's one problem, I have never owned a Chronograph. Up until recently, they were prohibitively expensive. So, how do I know I have the right velocity? The answer came when a friend of mine asked me to zero the iron sights on an old '94 Winchester. He had just bought some of the then new lever evolution ammunition for it. He told me it wasn't "doin' right". I didn't know what that meant until I took it out and shot it. The bullets were hitting 6" low and 10" to the right, in the direction of the rifling twist. The bullet weight was the same 150 grains he'd always shot, but these moved faster. It was then that I developed a theory that the increased velocity was causing increased spin drift.

Later on, I was playing with a Mauser. I was shooting some federal ammunition. The listed muzzle velocity was lower than the military load that I had researched. Sure enough, it shot high and left.

So, here is my procedure for service load duplication. I first try to find a bullet of the correct weight and general type. For most of our purposes, that means a 174grain spitzer. 180 grain is probably close enough for those of you that have boat tail intolerant rifles. Then, I start with a minimum load for that bullet. I say minimum because you'll probably be using a different primer and brass type than what was tested in the book. If it shoots where it should, you're done. On a #4 enfield, this should be a couple inches high at 100 yards. If it hits extremely high, you need more velocity. Windage should also center itself up, provided the rifle was properly zeroed when you got it.
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Long branch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Long branch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 1:50pm
Obviously, you need to watch for pressure signs. I like to use the slowest burning powder I can reach my intended velocity range with to keep pressures down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 2:19pm
Hi Long Branch , 

me also i tried to duplicate the service loads ( ...but using a Crony )
on the LB n4 i found that 40 gr about of IMR4064 under the Sierra 174 HPBT 
at an oal of 78 mm give  about 738/ 743  mt.sec.  ( military load speed ) 

....there is anyway a problem with the different bullet ballistic factor that produce 
different trajectory 

so having regard to the impossibility of a correct use of the rear sight at a distance 
more then 200 mt  ....i given up  Unhappy

CC



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Long branch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 2:28pm
What bullet were you using?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DairyFarmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 8:06pm
On the theory of twist. The greater the rate of twist the slower a bullet can travel and still maintain stability.
 
Well that's the theory. A rifle is a lot like a women. No two are the same and they do unpredictable things for no reason other than they can.
 
The great thing about reloading is the ability to control the loads for your specific rifle. By adjusting the load you can find the sweet spot. And this includes everything from resizing the case to the type and amount of crimp you put on the bullet.
 
Bullet placement is more important than velocity. What good is an extra 30fps when you miss the mark? Have a look at your local range. They or a member will have a chronograph. Just make 101% sure you don't put a bullet through it. Find a load that your rifle likes and gives the desired grouping. Then start adjusting the velocity if you want to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Long branch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 8:10pm
Working up match loads and duplicating service ballistics are two different things, but that's some good info. I will also add that for long range shooting, velocity does matter. You have to move the bullet fast enough to get it to the target. An accurate mouse fart load won't do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 10:22pm
Originally posted by Long branch Long branch wrote:

What bullet were you using?

I tried :

- Sierra MatchKing 174 gr HPBT
- Hornady 174 gr FMJ BT  (#3131)
- Sellier&Bellot 180 gr 2909
- Prvi Partizan 174 gr FMJ FB
- Prvi Partizan 182 gr FMJ BT

i noticed the closest to the military trajectory it is the Hornady 
despite a shape  totally  different then military MKVII 
ah !  ...to copy mil.traject.  need a lower speed ( about 725/730 mt/sec )

......with my 1945 LB n. 4 mk1*  practically new 

Wink    CC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote No4Enfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 7:22pm
I'm looking for a good load too, mk7 ideal but I'd settle for even mimicking the privi partizan factory load. Anyone done this successfully?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2016 at 9:05am
I use the  Sierra 180 gr  on 39 grains of Varget  which comes very close to the Mk VII load and is very accurate
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2016 at 1:09pm
The best way to reload to military velocities is to invest in a chronometer. They are not that expensive, and you can load up batches of 5 rounds with an gradual increase in load until you get speed you want. It's much easier to note what you are doing when you've got an accurate record. However you may find that dropping the speed a bit will be more accurate; especially on the No1 SMLE's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2016 at 1:37am
Originally posted by No4Enfield No4Enfield wrote:

I'm looking for a good load too, mk7 ideal but I'd settle for even mimicking the privi partizan factory load. Anyone done this successfully?


 Vhitavouri N140, 41 grains behind a sierra 174grain bullet col 78mm, privy cases cci or federal primers works for me.
  The above load is 0.7 grains below max so I wouldn't exceed 40 grains.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andre-Richard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2016 at 1:45am
I've settled on 174 SMK/N 140/40.0
However, considering the cost of SMK's, I tested bulk (500) 174 FMJ PPU bullets. Extreme weight variation went from 172.2 to 174.4 (!). However, I weighted each of the 500 bullets, segregating them in lots .2 grains apart and voilà (see 100 meters target below). About the same as SMK for 1/3 of the price...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2016 at 4:06am
I have also tried the Sellier Bellot 180 grain ogives; and had a similar experience. The weights are not regular and had to check each one and batch them by weight. They work well in my No1 rifle.
I have bought some PPU ogives to test as well but have not had time yet. Will probably finish off the SB's before going there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andre-Richard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2016 at 8:17am
A friend tried the same test with S&B bullets and got similar results. Apart from gross imperfections, I think that regularity in weight is what separates target projectiles from knock about bullets. But then, weighting each bullet is not particularly fun...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2016 at 9:42am
Anyone have a good ball powder load for about 2500 FPS with 150 gr pills?
I'm tired of fighting with the pencil lead shaped IMR 3031 in my Dillon meter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evanguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2016 at 11:17am
I havent used it yet, but i believe BL-C2 would be an ideal powder for the 303 british. Low pressure higher velocity. Personily i belive it will do exactly what you want. Varget is also a nice powder but im not sure if its a ball powder.
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