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Snipers. Then and now...

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Honkytonk View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 15 2018 at 12:10pm
I recently watched a documentary on Canadian snipers during WW2. Humbling, to say the least. I mentioned it to a guy at the pub and he said today's snipers are so much better. His reasoning was some of the incredibly long kills scored in the Middle East. I played a lot of competitive ice hockey in the late '60's through to the late '70's. I don't even watch it now because technology has changed the name so much. Steriods, composite sticks, scientifically engineered skates. Are the current players (or snipers) any better than the past? If you have a Good given talent, that never changes. How the way war (or sports) is fought and played does. My hat off to our military warriors, past and present. They make me feel safe...
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Macd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Macd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2018 at 1:10pm
Yesterday's snipers were shooting well within range of getting shot in return.  Today's are  so far away the targets don't even know where the shot originated.  Not to take anything away from someone who can hit a target at 3.54 kilometers away but having a team outfitted with computers, wind measuring devices and using a modern rifle designed only for sniping must make it easier.  It makes feats like the ones by Simo "Simuna" Häyhä nicknamed "White Death" by the Red Army using a 7.62x54r M28 that much more impressive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2018 at 1:44pm
Macd... My point exactly. And I toltally agree!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2018 at 2:28pm
The technology has advance massively as well. Not just the shooting related but the ancillary stuff. Example you can laser range-find (invisibly with IR) punch in your GPS & the satellite will give you a range, wind drift, heading & so on right back.
I used a coincident-image rangefinder for years, it was handy but bulky.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d0/b3/a5/d0b3a58a438c4df189218e8110005691.jpg

It was accurate I'd say to about 3% with practice.
Now I use a laser that's in the order of inches at 7~800 yds & good to 1,000.

http://normalizer.liveclicker.com/thumb/1062/1294411589_1_Flv_512x288_thumb_10.jpg/halo-xtanium-1000-yd-rangefinder-10.jpg
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2018 at 5:30pm
MacD: Today's snipers DO get shot, & shot at.(So do their "offsiders")

Methinks Rhino - if he feels he should - may expound on that
Loose wimmen tightened here
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Honkytonk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2018 at 6:22pm
No weapons systems is impervious to counter fire. Tanks, snipers, artillery, air craft carrier,etc. Smart enemy combatants, especially on their own turf, know where likely attack positions will come from. Smart enemies probably have these positions pre-calibrated. If they have the appropriate weapon available (mortar, RPG,helicopter, long range rifle,etc) there most likely will be an attempt to elimate the threat with counter fire.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pukka Bundook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2018 at 9:07pm
No kidding that todays snipers are V good at their game, but the game is different as noted in the first post or two.
Simo had to read the wind, the light and the range and did it extremely well without any modern support or props.  As also noted, he was within close range of the enemy for much of the time.  My hat is off to him, doing it by hand and eye. 
Todays team players are in a totally different situation, but still the best are Very good!
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stanforth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2018 at 4:51am
Times change but I think the modern sniper must feel safer than one in WW1. 100 to 300 yards from his target, laid in the mud, awaiting the enemy to give his co-ordinates to their artillery and then having to wait for nightfall to make his way back to his lines.
 
Close range sniping is more about finding a spot and getting to it unobserved. My son in law has just done a sniping course with the RAF Regiment and the main part was spent on location and concealment.
 
Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2018 at 6:02am
I read once that there were lots of soldiers that could qualify in regards to shooting for scout/sniper. The book said the art of sniping was knowing your target, terrain, and getting there. Then patience. It said the most important part was getting back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2018 at 7:13am
Yep the 5 "S"s.
Shape
Shadow
Shine
Silhouette
Sound

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Macd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2018 at 7:21am
There is a world of difference from then till now.


Francis Pegahmagabow.

Eventually the only human element of sniping will be to choose the target. The AI will do the rest with smart bullets that don't miss.

Suggested reading One Shot One Kill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stanforth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2018 at 10:54am
My 2 books on the subject are
 
A Rifleman Went To War by Herbert Mc.Bride. This should be of special interest to our Canadian and USA members as he was an American who joined the Canadian forces in WW1.
 
Sniping in France by Hesketh Prichard. He was in charge of the Sniper School.
 
They are  both available in paperback which makes them affordable.
Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2018 at 12:13pm
"Marine Sniper: 93 Confirmed Kills" Carlos Hathcock's biography is well written & researched if dated nowadays.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2018 at 4:15am
Francis Pegahmagabow iirc used a Ross. As did a number of 1st nation's snipers in the first twirl at war
Loose wimmen tightened here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pukka Bundook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2018 at 5:53am
The White Sniper is a V good read, By Tappio and I forget his surname.
 
Goes into quite a lot of detail on Simo's methods.   Some questions he asked Simo were never answered; he was rather reticent and only answered if he wanted to.
 
R.
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