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Stuck Magazine

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RickG55 View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 04 2010 at 6:37am
Hi everyone.  I'm new to this forum, but it looks like it has a great deal of information.

I came about two Enfields when my great uncle passed and my great aunt gave them to me.  One is a #4 MKI that I plan on turning into a deer rifle (leaving it stock).  As I was inspecting the rifle, I found that I couldn't get the magazine to drop free.  The magazine release, which I assume is the button inside the trigger guard, seems to be stuck or something.  It simply won't give at all.  On the other Enfield, which is not a #4 MKI, the switch moves easily and the magazine drops right out.

Am I missing something or doing something wrong? 

Thanks for any help you can give me.
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RickG55 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RickG55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 8:12am
Okay, I got the magazine out.  I took a screwdriver, put a patch over the release tab to protect it, turned the gun upside down, and pushed the tab with the screwdriver until the magazine came loose.  Apparently it's just going to be real tough to use the release (can't do it with fingers alone).  Is this normal?  Do I even need to remove the magazine, or can I use clips to load it and just work the bolt to unload it?
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mauser98nut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mauser98nut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 8:17am
First off Welcome! I wonder if someone tried to put the wrong magazine in your rifle at some point there is a difference.I would think you would be able to get it out by hand without too much force.The only other idea would be to remove the two screws holding the floor plate and then go from there as the release is mounted to the floor plate.Magazines for the No1mk111 have an additional little flat spring on the back of the magazine.While they may look the same width wise the magazines are different there too. 
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mauser98nut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mauser98nut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 8:23am
You can load with clips.One low to the back of the clip then one above the rim of the first and keep alternating till the clip is full.You want it so when they go into the magazine the round you are feeding isn't hung up on the one below.It is actual easy to do by hand with out clips. 
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RickG55 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RickG55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 8:34am
Thanks for the reply.  I did notice when I got the magazine out that the release was still extremely stiff, so I'd think that whatever spring is involved there is very strong.  I think I'll buy another mag, though, to see if it makes a difference.  I suspect I'll be loading and unloading by hand until/unless the spring gets manageable. 

Other than that, the rifle is a beauty.  It smells like it still has new grease on it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 8:54am
Can you post a picture of the magazine (particularly the rear end where the locking catch is?)
I'm guessing that the magazine is either bowed, the sides are too wide to fit in the magazine well, or that there is a problem with the catch dragging on the magazine body.

You say the working rifle & magazine are not a #4. Could that rifle be a #1, which has a slightly different magazine, and the magazine for the #4 is a #1 magazine that just jams in instead of fitting properly?

If you look at the 2 magazines are the different at the rib on the rear?
What is the rifle that is not a #4? is it a #1 (SMLE)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LE Owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 9:04am
Originally posted by mauser98nut mauser98nut wrote:

First off Welcome! I wonder if someone tried to put the wrong magazine in your rifle at some point there is a difference.I would think you would be able to get it out by hand without too much force.The only other idea would be to remove the two screws holding the floor plate and then go from there as the release is mounted to the floor plate.
Sorry to have to correct you but the magazine catch is not mounted to the floorplate. The catch is mounted to the same stanction that the trigger is mounted to, except in the case of the Mk2 rifles of course.
Quote
 
Magazines for the No1mk111 have an additional little flat spring on the back of the magazine.While they may look the same width wise the magazines are different there too. 
 
A No.1 MkIII magazine was my first thoughts on this, I've had the same situation when using a no.1 magazine with my No.4. The spring didn't cause a problem, but everytime I've put a No.1 mag in a No.4 its been a very tight fit.
I filed a tiny bit from the catch mating surface of the mag, just enough to fit tightly but not too tightly in my No.4 but not be a loose fit in my No.1.
The catch of my No.4 is very hard and sharp, it had already shaved a bit of steel from the No.1 mag's mating surface.
 
If the rear feed lips have been bulged or bent upwards, this can also cause a too tight fit. 
 
I've also found that many No.4 magazines can't be used with a No.1 that has a cut off installed.
The lower right hand side of the mag body below the feed lips wasn't low enough and jammed against the cut off plate.
 
I bought up a bunch of spare mags many years ago, back then mags were cheap but chargers were rare as hens teeth locally.
 
Also I have noticed that most SMLE mags drop free when released but most No.4 mags have to be pulled out.
 
 
Originally posted by RickG55 RickG55 wrote:

Thanks for the reply.  I did notice when I got the magazine out that the release was still extremely stiff, so I'd think that whatever spring is involved there is very strong.  I think I'll buy another mag, though, to see if it makes a difference.  I suspect I'll be loading and unloading by hand until/unless the spring gets manageable. 

Other than that, the rifle is a beauty.  It smells like it still has new grease on it. 
 
Cosmoline doesn't have much lubricating bility, its a preservative rather than a lubricant. Stiff dried up grease could be part of the problem. Grit or debris inside the slot could also have been restricting the movement of the catch.
The mag catch and trigger share the same V spring so don't alter it.
It just occurred to me that this shared spring may be why use of spare mags was discouraged. Snapping a fresh mag in place in a hurry may have resulted in broken or weakened springs which would disable the trigger.
 
The original Lee rifles, that inspired the Lee Enfield design, were originally meant for reloading using five shot quick detachable magazines, each soldier carrying a bandoleer or cartridge belt with six or more loaded mags at the ready. That was long before chargers or stripper clips became available.
Some have accused Mauser of stealing the stripper clip idea from Lee.
Stripper clips were used to feed some crank operated machineguns earlier on, but this type of clip fed directly into the feedway of the gun rather than into a box magazine.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 11:34am
I'm by no means an expert on this(I learn every day) I'd ask if you have the proper magazine for the RIFLE(not gun)..further I'd be looking @ junk/gunk built up round the release mechanism.(Does this rifle need a good bath?)
Just askin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lithgow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 4:53pm
Sounds like the mag release is gummed or rusted stiff.
The original poster stated that he could not move the release. I would be looking for dried cosmo or rust where the mag release pivots.
Sounds like you need to strip it down and give it good clean.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RickG55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 7:16pm
It could very well need a bath.  It was a wallhanger for my great uncle for decades, and it's been a safe queen at my house for 3-4 years.  I never even thought about actually using it until I came across an article written by someone using an Enfield for deer hunting, and it struck me how neat that would be.  Guess I'll start surfing until I find a video or clear instructions on how to disassemble, clean, and reassemble.

The other Enfield I have has an x-like marking on it with some tool marks inside the X.  That one has the traditional dovetail-type front sight, and the bayonet is still affixed.  The #4 also has a bayonet, butt it's not attached.

I'll try to take photos and post them to Photobucket.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beerhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 8:43pm
Originally posted by RickG55 RickG55 wrote:

  I suspect I'll be loading and unloading by hand until/unless the spring gets manageable.

If you mean through the top rather than by changing the magazine?  That is how they are supposed to be loaded.  The magazine is only removed for cleaning.  (Or unusually the so-called "alternative method" of unloading.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 10:58pm
Sounds like the mag release needs some cleaning and lubrication ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2010 at 11:05pm
Originally posted by White Rhino White Rhino wrote:

Sounds like the mag release needs some cleaning and lubrication ...
 
I concur Rhino
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