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My No5 MK1

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jhjfdf View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 22 2010 at 4:40pm
I bought my Jungle Carbine 2 days ago. I never owned a Enfield before so everything is pretty new to me.

I want to know in which year it was produced and who produced it.

On the site http://www.enfieldrifles.ca/in2.htm it says "No5 were only produced by BSA Shirley and ROF Fazakerley, serials began with a B at the Shirley plant and an F at the Fazakerley factory." but my Enfield starts with an A (A4163).
On the left side the metal(at the cartridge chamber) is marked with 303 Brit and above of that there are 2 symbols +2 numbers and 2 letter the first looks like a shield with something in it and a little N under it the second one is a shield with a roughened texture and then the numbers and letter are 10IE.  I cant take photos of it with my camera its to blurred every time.

On the Top of the cartridge chamber ther is a little arrow -> pointing to the shooter

I hope that someone can help me.  Thanks in advantage

And i hope my "english" wasnt too bad.
















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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2010 at 10:00pm
The serial numbers started with the letters you mention, but were later changed. My Fazakerley built #4 serial # starts with an "A" as well so I guess your #5 is a Faz as well.
Could the numbers & letters under a shield be the letters "BNP" under a picture of a crown? That would be a commercial proof mark. (Birmingham Nitro Proof) If so there should also be a reference to a pressure in tons per square inch, IIRC 18.5.

How big is the arrow? Is there a "U" round it?
If the arrow is small & alone it is probably a MOD "Broad Arrow" proof mark, frequently called a "crows foot, or bird's foot", because that is what it resembles. If the arrow is longer & finer & there is a "U" surrounding it that is a South African acceptance/ownership mark, meaning your rifle was in service in South Africa at some point.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beerhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2010 at 10:53pm
The serial number of your rifle indicates that it is early (1944) Fazackerly production.  (Right after the initial FE series.)

The left side of the receiver body should be marked: No.5 Mk1 ROF(F) X/44 (Where X is the month of production.)  but as these makings were electro pencilled rather faintly, they are often difficult to see.  The serial number was there as well but in your case has been retrospectively stamped on the wrist.  (This was common practice.)

The transverse screw through the woodwork forward of the receiver means that your carbine has been reworked at some point in the past at the Indian Rifle Factory, Ishapore (RFI).

The site that you quote is incorrect in that it doesn't tell the whole story about the serial numbers.  Only the first batch of Fazackerly production started with an F and it was FE not just F on its own.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhjfdf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 12:58am
The arrow is really small and there isnt a U around it. And its only a single N
I will get a better camera and make pictures of the receiver but there arent markings like you mentioned...i had seen these markings on the internet but my No5 dont have it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 3:52am
the no5 rifles were only produced by BSA [assigned BB thru BM] and FAZ [assigned single letters & AA]

prduced 81,300 at BSA [from BB , BD , BE , BF , BG , BJ & BK ] 1945-1947 and  170,000 at FAZ [from A to Z & AA to AC ] 1944-47 , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 5:52am
Did you check all  the markings sections on the other Enfield rifles site, there are several pages broken up by type of marking? Without pics leafing through the tabs on there is probably your best bet.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beerhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by A square 10 A square 10 wrote:

FAZ [assigned single letters & AA]

Plus the FE prefix used in February and March of 1944.  (As I said in my earlier post.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 10:58pm
The BNP also tells you it was proofed after 1954. NP was the Birmingham Nitro Proof between 1912 and 1954, Both under a crown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mauser98nut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2010 at 9:09am
Welcome!This is a good forum so you have no worries here-ask away!Looks like a good buy.Being your first is a No 5 you will expect more recoil then the other versions but nothing unmanageable!Good luck with your new toy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhjfdf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 5:13am


I was on the range with it.
This were my best 5 shots.
I was shooting at 100 Meters, sitting and the weapon on a clip-on bipod at the table
Ammunition was .303 brit from PMP Denel

And i really love that rifle...it has no date markings on it but who cares when it shoots like that :D

Some friend told me the markings on the side were from the bullet-office( dont know the english name, its were you bring the gun and they shoot it an say that they are safe to use) in the german city Ulm.
And the marking on the top is the crowfeet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2010 at 5:22am
We'd call that the "Ulm Proof House".
PMP (Pretoria Metal Pressings) is South African manufacture, excellent quality stuff.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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