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What do I have? Mk4 No.1???

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cebal101 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cebal101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What do I have? Mk4 No.1???
    Posted: May 30 2011 at 3:40am
Hey everyone,

Im incredibly new to Enfield rifles having just picked one up that was fitted with a synthetic stock.

Ive been trying to research the rifle and find out some of its history but everything I read concerns a Mk1 No.4.  I havent seen anything about a Mk4 No.1 (which is what is printed on my rifle).

The next question I have is trying to figure out the manufacturer mark.  I have an "AM" printed on side where serial number is printed.  Is that the manufacturer mark?  If so what does that mean?  Ive seen 3 different charts describing the acronyms and none of them have an AM.  Its fairly clear that it is an AM so im kind of stuck.  Where are the manufacturer marks typically stamped?  Is there another location on the metal that would also have it, that I could revert to for confirmation?

The bolt doesnt appear to match.

Im looking forward to putting back a wood stock that I plan on finishing myself and bringing my rifle at least a little closer to a more traditional look so any advice is GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks!
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aqbill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aqbill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2011 at 4:08am
Sounds like you do, indeed, have a No. 4 Mk. 1 Enfield. There's lots of information all over the rifle but mostly on the left side of the butt socket which should allow you to determine the manufacturer, year of manufacturer and the serial number. The AM - I believe - are the prefix to the serial number. In any case, there are many of these rifles around the world and so there's lots of info on this forum and others - such as milsurp... Hope you enjoy it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2011 at 4:17am
Welcome aboard.
First you have to learn ( & unnerstann) BritSpeak, which is similar to American English, just enough so to be utterly confusing!Star

Essentially there are 3 "layers" of development within the system.

Layer 1. "We rebuilt the whole dang thing, pretty much starting from scratch, but we kept one or two good features". This is the Number (#).

Layer 2. "We fixed a lot of things that were messed up in the re-build by improving on them." This is the Mark (Mk).

Layer 3. "We fixed things that got messed up in the previous fix, or needed to simplify something cause there's a war on." this is the "star" or "*" sometimes done more than once so you might find "**" or even "***" versions.Censored

So. You either have a #1, or a #4.
If you have anything else it's not a real Enfield it's one of those funky U.S. Made Mauser rip off's & we won't talk to you any more  but they do account for the (missing) #2 & #3 models ( These are also known as American Enfields or P-14 or P-17 rifles (pattern 14 or pattern 17).Dead
(just kidding)

Now there were 2 minor versions,a different model & a modification to the basic #4!

The #5 AKA Jungle carbine, a cut down lightened #4.

The #4 Mk 1* A slightly tweaked #4 Mk 1 with a few bits & bobs simplified.

The #4 MkII an upgraded #4 Mk1 with a "better" trigger.

So the Number (major change) comes first.
The Mark (Upgrade above & beyond minor twiddling) comes next.

The revision (*) comes last.

Hopefully that helps even if it is a little tongue in cheek.Pig

As a quick ( & hopefully helpful) cheat sheet!

If the barrel is flush with a heavy metal front end to the stock it's a #1 of some sub type.

If the barrel sticks out about 2" & has bayonet lugs attached to it its a #4 of some type.

Unfortunately yours is not fitted to the original stock so you'll need to check the sights to figure out the model. If the rear sight is a notch partway down the stock it's a #1, if its a peep sight at the back of the receiver its a #4.
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cebal101 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cebal101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2011 at 4:31am
Wow, thanks for the advice.  Im going to have to get on this because with the small amount of research ive been attempting to do im really liking the world of Enfields...  That being said, if it does turn out to be an American-made copy ill have to just get a real one.  hahaha.  It would be nice however if this was a leggit Enfield because im looking forward to refinishing a replacement stock and bringing this rifle back to how it should look.

As far as the rear sight, unfortunately the person I purchased it from removed it and added a modern scope-mount, then lost the original sight.  While I like the "nifty" scope and mount he threw into the purchase, its not how the rifle was intended to look like so I have work to do.

Thanks again!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan de Enfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2011 at 4:06pm
It could be a No1 Mk4 but that would be an exceptionally rare beast, It could be an incorrectly marked No4 Mk1 (Kyber Pass copy possibly) or it could be that you have misread and it is a No4 Mk1 (or Mk1*)
Pictures would enable you to get an answer without speculation
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cebal101 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cebal101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2011 at 4:14pm
Good point.  Ill definitely post some pics when I get up in the morning.  Im definitely open to the possibility of having misread it since im still not very familiar with these rifles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2011 at 4:17pm
Another Welcome. Shamu did a great job (though there are those No4 1/2s and 1/3s which are the No4 Mk1 and No4 Mk1* upgraded to the No4 MkII trigger) Here is a link to a website that is sort of an Enfield 101  http://www.enfieldrifles.ca/
Have a Nice Day
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2011 at 9:51pm
Yeah, I forgot the slash models. See how much sense it makes! Even us X-perts can't get it right! Oops. Sick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2011 at 11:22pm
Pictures !!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cebal101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2011 at 1:28am
hopefully this works...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cebal101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2011 at 1:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cebal101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2011 at 1:31am

Is this a "C" or part of an "S" in a circle?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cebal101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2011 at 1:38am


Well I apologize to everyone.   I was definitely wrong in my identification.  Its a No.4 Mk.1...  I believe its real but still dont know which mark is the manufacturer mark.






On the left side of this picture, there is a half-circle (the bottom half being faded).  Is this the manufacturer mark?  So far I see that, then another part that has an LN (or an L) then another circle with an A and a number in it.  

Now that I know for sure that its a No. 4 Mk1, I will go back to the research.  I was completely mixed up in what I thought it was.  When I took it out of the cabinet this morning it was a definite surprise.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2011 at 1:38am
It works. You have a thumbnail posted, to see the full sized image just click on the little pic in the posts. A new window will open with this pic in it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cebal101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2011 at 1:42am
Great!  I think my photobucket album is completely viewable which is fine since these are the only pics I have on there.  There are a few others that didnt come out so good, and others that I didnt post.  Feel free to check them out.  Ill put up some full sized pics some other time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2011 at 1:43am
The manufacturer's mark is on the wrist, on the left side above the serial number. It's right above the AM prefix. I can't see it good enough in that picture. I can see the M at the beginning, so that could mean Maltby or BSA depending on what the rest of that line reads. Are you going to put the ol' gal back to original configuration or leave it as is?
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