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Blown out primer!

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Zed View Drop Down
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    Posted: November 11 2013 at 3:21am
Gent's, I would like your opinions on possible cause of a minor blow out around the primer of one case in a batch of 50 (reloaded) Please see attached photo.

I am thinking of the following possibles:
1:The case may be too loose around the primer
2:The primer is faulty, or possibly got a Pistol primer by mistake.
It appears to have left a slight mark on the bolt head, which is not great. I will be removing primer to examine it, then scrapping the case obviously; but am curious to know if anyone else has had this happen.
Thanks, Zed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2013 at 5:44am
A guess.
As the edge of that one primer seems more flattened than all the others, so I'm going with a Large Pistol primer blew out under rifle pressures?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2013 at 10:13am
It looks flatter tag the others, as Shamu noted. I'd agree improper primer
or a loose fit in the case.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LE Owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2013 at 1:22pm
Could just be the lighting but quite a few of those expended primers look oddly misshapen.
A couple of the cartridge case bases look dished as well.
At least one other primer shows a pinched or dented spot on the rim that looks much like the spot where the other primer blew out.
I'm figuring defective primers, damaged during manufacture of the cup.
Like I say it may just be the angle of the light, but I'd observe carefully how the de capping procedure feels. Look for loose pockets.
 
A fellow on another board has been having problems with loosely fitting primers in another caliber.
Could be a bad lot of primer cups.
 
WW1 era Remington ammo had a problem with blown primers when used by the French in the Lewis guns mounted on aircraft. They took to breaking down the cartridges and heavily staking the primers in, then reloaded them.
IIRC the problem was traced to undersized primer cups from a subcontractor.
 
When I first began reloading the .303 I used Seller & Bellot cases. I found these had such a tight primer pocket that many primers detonated while being seated. I had to ream out the pockets to get them to work.
I've heard that's no longer an issue with S&B .303 cases, but it suggests that some European Boxer primers may be a tad small for American made cases.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2013 at 9:13pm
S&B has earned a poor reputation IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2013 at 4:08am
Thank you for your comments gentlemen; I will inspect it next weekend. I remove the primers by hand in a so I will look out for ones that are too easy to remove and maybe retire those cases. I do not use a reamer as they are always de-primed prior to cleaning in an ultra sound bath. It is possible that pistol primer got mixed in with the rifle primers when swapping the rig from .45ACP to .303 British. I tend to be very careful to avoid these type of errors, it would be an easy thing to miss.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote petes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2013 at 9:49pm
My guess is loose fit in case for what it is worth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2014 at 3:38am
Just to update on this blown primer. The primer did not seem loose when removing it; which was a surprise. But When I inspected the case with a magnifying glass  I could see a scrape in the side of the primer well; I suspect this was the root cause of the leakage. Anyway, I've binned that case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2014 at 7:24pm
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

Just to update on this blown primer. The primer did not seem loose when removing it; which was a surprise. But When I inspected the case with a magnifying glass  I could see a scrape in the side of the primer well; I suspect this was the root cause of the leakage. Anyway, I've binned that case.

Hallo , 

i seen  this post only today ( 'cause i'm a newby ) but i have to tell

 ....the same identical  thing happened to me the past year with my LB n.4
Case Remington - Powder 4064 ( 39,8 grs ) - Bullet Sierra MK HPBT 174 grs
OAL 78 mm ( then not remarkable chamber pressure ) but  ...primer Winchester

Well ,  usually i utilize Federal 210GM but at that time my supplier do not have then i 
took Winchester )

when i primed the cases ( i utilize e manual RCBS primer )  i felt a insert strenght
"too soft"   ( i never felt it with the Federal 210 )  - well , after twenty shots , on
cleaning the gun , i seen a little mark on the front of the bolthed  -  i gone to inspect
the case with the magnifier and seen the primer drilled and a little portion ( 1/2 mm )
of the angle of the primer pocket not only scraped , but "melted"  justlike by a microtorch

never seen anything like this ( ...somewhere i have some pic )Confused

....i stopped the utilize of these primers 

a month ago i  thought i would re-use  them with the 8x57 IS crtg 

wery mild load and   ....again ( but without "melting" ) - 

then    .....a clue is not a evidence  but two  ! ! Shocked

my personal opinion it is the composition of the primers cups alloy  it is not well balanced
to resist well to a "overheating"/"overpressure" ( especially if the priming compound quantity 
it is not  exactely / perfectly distributed )


CC




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2014 at 12:58am
I have also changed to the Federal primers instead of Winchester, which was used in this case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2014 at 4:52am
...correct solution of the problem Approve

i seen from a mile ,  in your pic ,  the Winchester primers Smile

CC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toten Kopf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2014 at 11:07pm
I have had this happen as well.  .308 case fired in a Remington SPS Tactical.
 
Winchester Large Rifle Primer.  Only once after thousands and thousands of Winchecter primers.
I still have many, many WLR primers and will continue to use them.  Perhaps some LP primers got mixed up with the manufacture of LR primers or thin LR primer cup.  Who knows?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2014 at 3:43pm
hi guys

to continue studying about it  ......

could it be a matter of primer seating depth ?    ...better ,  
too much ( ...or not enough ) force applied in "squeezing the priming compound" 
at the moment of priming the case ?   ....then a irregular compound ignition on a 
also irregular  cup deformation ? 
....even if hardly  , in manually priming , you can apply always the same identical 
force   (...and i think the Winchester's engineers should know )

or more simply  ...a cups production defect that sometime happen ? 

CC


  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 8:27pm
It is possible if a primer is not quite aligned it will scratch the side of the case well and create a small gap that is exploited by the combustion pressure and leaking the gases.
Initially when using the Dillon 650 loading rig I would have the primer get pushed in sideways on; this I resolved after going through the rig and making a few adjustments. Firstly the detent spring that holds the ball bearing for the rotating plate is too long and when the plate turns to the next position it would snap into place, also causing powder to shake out of the cases when doing .45 's. The plate needs to be well lubricated underneath and have no up/down play while remaining easy to turn by hand. Not shaking the rig too much on end of travel also is important. Adding strong elastic bands to return the powder hopper also helped improve powder dosage tolerances.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2014 at 1:25pm
Zed: I just had my first blown primer in 40+ years of reloading.  Luckily it was in my Ruger Guide gun which is not only new but really strong as  well. 
 
Your primer blow out was a relatively minor one. My blow up was a little more severe than yours.
 
All of that primer (no longer in the picture above) and resulting debris exited the gun thru the relief hole on the side of the gun.
 
Needless to say this scared the livin' ship out of me!
 
It took a while to actually figure out why this happened and the result was a loose primer pocket.
 
This was once fired Federal .30-06 brass but still there were 7 more loose pockets in that batch I found and I ended up measuring every single one. I also pulled 50 more loaded rounds only to find 3 more loose ones.
 
I had seated all of these primers on the machine, which was a deviation from my normal method of using a hand held RCBS Universal Priming Tool.  The advantage of the hand held tool is that you can feel the pressure needed for each one as you are doing it. With the loading press ,,, Not so much.
 
So my caution is that if a primer takes little pressure to insert,,, the case is probably bad. It should go in with a firm press fit.
 
The primer pocket should measure .211-.212 +.000  This one now measures .251! Boom!
 
Randy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2014 at 8:42am
Hi gents 

i found the photo of the same "adventure" happened to me some months ago
with primers WLR     ....as i told in a precedent post 

red  = the hole in the cup
green =  the "melted" surfaces






 .....i continue to utilize the bolthead    Wink,      ...no more  the Winchester primers  Thumbs Down

CC

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