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Infamous Ross

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hoadie View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 28 2019 at 5:57pm
Yes HT..but there was also a fair amount of "graft" involved. Hence, the law suits.
It was a fantastic rifle, but too complicated for the "real" world. WWI snipers were equipped with them right thru, because of their accuracy..but withdrawn for regular battle use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2019 at 5:23pm
So it truly wasn't a battle weapon for the average soldier. I'm Canadian, and can appreciate the reason the Ross was manuctured for our troops, but some times politics, and Sir Sam Hughes, need to bow down to a tried and true weapon, the Lee Enfield. While our young nation was trying to secure a place in the world order, I can't help but wonder how many young Canadian boys died due to its unreliability in real life war conditions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tonsper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2019 at 2:22pm
Mud was the big problem with the Ross rifle. It was made to very tight and precise tolerances. It worked very well when cleaned and oiled properly and at a rifle range with Canadian-made ammunition. It did not work well in the mud with ammunition made by someone whose idea of high technology was cleaning mud off their hammer before they started to beat something in an ammunition factory. When dirty, such as every day in the trenches, the lack of firm initial extraction required extra help to open the bolt. This often required a boot heel or a wooden club to overcome the extra friction from just a small amount of dirt.

When complicated further by the ham-fisted who re-assembled their rifle bolts improperly, this very well made rifle bore the brunt. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddyofurniture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2019 at 8:30am
My Papere carried a Ross when he  shipped out in 1914.

Used it to shoot the Huns till the mud kept jamming it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2019 at 2:30pm
I understand some were pawned off on the Portugese navy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tonsper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2019 at 6:00pm
RE - I ask, because I know - first hand from veterans, that they went over to Europe with the Ross.

Hoadie,  you are correct in your statement but I was talking about the Ross MkII rifles sold to the US near the end of WWI. These 20,000 rifles were apparently from stocks used only on this side of the pond. Other variants of the Ross MkII and MkIII had other histories. Some undoubtedly were used in the mud often found in Europe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tonsper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2019 at 5:44pm
CEF is the accepted abbreviation for Canadian Expeditionary Force and was used when there was not room for or desire to stamp the very long name on a rifle butt.

The 31st Battalion (31 BN) was later renamed the South Alberta Light Horse Regiment and fought in the next world was an an armoured reconnaissance regiment. It still exists today as a Reserve Army regiment out of Fort Steele, Edmonton, Alberta.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2019 at 2:46pm
"CEF" ?? You sure it wasn't Canadian Expeditionary Force??

I ask, because I know - first hand from veterans, that they went over to Europe with the Ross.

There is much documentation, as well..about the shortcomings of the Ross in battlefield conditions (In fact lawsuits were launched).
Later on, the Ross was turned in upon arrival in Blighty, & proper Enfields issued.
As well, the woefully inadequate Canadian web gear was burned - pretty much dockside - upon arrival.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tonsper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2019 at 12:27pm
Here is a paraphrased excerpt from "The Ross Rifle Story"

Mark II Rosses were withdrawn from front line use in 1916. Suddenly saddled with a glut of non-combat rifles, Canada cast about for buyers." The purchase of 20,000 Mark II rifles was negotiated by the State of New York. The US War Dept. later stepped in and completed the purchase.  The rifles, ammunition, and parts were shipped from Canada on November 17, 1917. The War Dept sold at cost to New York for defence purposes 10,000 rifles and the Mark VI ammunition. Of the remaining rifles, 5,000 went to Camp Sherman, Ohio, and 5,000 to Camp Devens, Massachusetts, for recruit training. After the war, they were declared surplus and sold through the NRA to members for $5.00, later $3.50, each. This was discontinued in 1926 due to complaints from the new owners." There is no evidence that any of these rifles went overseas during WWI"

"LC" was the mark applied when the chamber was re-worked to open it, allowing for the use of the looser tolerances of wartime ammunition. The serial number was not applied to the metal but to the right side of the rear of the buttstock. 

I have a Ross Mark 2 - 3* that is marked "31 Bn CEF" which is now a Canadian Army Regiment called the South Alberta Light Horse Regiment, SALH or "Sally Horse". It was given to me by a friend of my father who had no sons that he could trust with a rifle. The rifle was bought by the friend's father during the late 1920s and used to get many deer and antelope for the family table. I have restored it to what it might have looked like a hundred years ago and make a point of firing it at least once a year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddyofurniture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2018 at 4:34pm
I have a US marked Ross rifle and bayonet.

Still shoot it with light hand loads.

What a rifle.

My Grandfather was issued one in 1914 for the trip over the pond.
Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2018 at 1:37pm
It is almost an Hour long but really covers the Ross and it problems:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2018 at 12:50pm
Honkytonk, I think that’s a fair and objective assessment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2018 at 12:18pm
To be honest, I've been unfair to the Ross. It was one of those weapons that was a head of it's time, and design features (plus mass produced ammo) meant it didn't have a chance in WW1 among the muck, mire, and horror of trench warfare. It was shelved because of the robust, dependable Lee Enfield. After the war, it was so overshadowed as a battle rifle, despite it's accuracy, it went the way of the dinosaurs. I also agree with the statement of if a knowledgeable person on this weapon assembles it, it would be a safe rifle. Again, not ideal for combat situations. But as a Canadian, I can respect the Ross.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Macd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2018 at 12:03pm
Part of the Ross problem was the ammunition.  Even when clean the rather broad variation in case sizes in the .303 rounds being produced by the millions worked okay in the generous chamber of the LE but too often just jammed in the Ross.  Not having the caming action of a turn bolt didn't help.  I have a K31 which is also straight pull and experienced the problem when using some neck sized rounds from a Model 11 rifle.

With respect to the bolt in the face issue.  Watch this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaSui_UqDX8
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2018 at 4:36am
I suspect the infamous status of the Ross grew over time. There are lots of things that will kill you if you don’t follow directions. My Dad shot his Ross rifles, and if he still had them, I’d be shooting them, after I verified the bolt was assembled correctly.

I remember as a kid being fascinated how the bolt turned with a straight push/pull of the bolt handle. Must have been a fast action to work. I didn’t get real interested in shooting until he has sold over half of his collection. I shudder thinking about the ridiculous low prices he sold those rifles for in the early 1990s, and how they slipped thru my fingers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2018 at 9:35pm
i wish i had bought the ross rifles i had options on back in the day , i only hesitated because of the rumers of difficulty disassemble/reassemble and dangers when not assembled correctly , i saw it as a safety issue i might not wish to own , i kick myself for not being a bit more daring at the time , 

i am sorry if some of you have limits on what you get to shoot and when , this always upsets me because i believe we are all capable and able to pick and choose the times and conditions when it is safe , i also believe we are equally safe in our ownership , which is none of any of our governments pervue to control , at least not mine - we have a constitution that guarantees my "GOD GIVEN RIGHTS" 

i shoot all my rifles and handguns , these days im going to shoot them more , ill be darned if anyone will take my second amendment rights away from me till the brass is cold as well as my hand , 
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