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Well 150 grainers in the No5 is a bust!

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Shamu View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 18 2017 at 12:57pm
I've tried everything to get this carbine to shoot well with 150 Gr bullets. I've tried 4 powders (IMR 3031, IMR 4895, H335 & Varget). 3 different 150 Gr pills. ( Hornady, Speer & Norma) lots of differing charge weights from light through "mid range" to "spicy" & 3 kinds of primers. I've messed with seating depths & anything else I can think of but I just guess it prefers the 174 Gr ones. The BEST group (pattern actually) was 7 1/2" for 10-rounds @ 200yds!
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My lightweight carbine likes heavy bullets & my full sized No4 Mk2 prefers the 150's!
Wacko
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2017 at 1:07pm
Boat tails and/or flat base pills?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zormpas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2017 at 3:24pm
Hey Doc! It hurts when I do that!!

Well, DON'T DO THAT!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2017 at 4:05pm
Sham..as I stated afore..the No 5 is a finicky critter. I can't hit nowt with mine..but my Limey immigrant hunt pard picks it up..fires 3 shots..& states its "spot on".
I've come to the conclusion that the only thing likely to get shot with it is ....ME!
Loose wimmen tightened here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2017 at 5:09am
Originally posted by Canuck Canuck wrote:

Boat tails and/or flat base pills?

All flat base, no keyholes either.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pete-4d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2017 at 5:52am
Shamu ;  Have you tried shooting without the flash hider , I have a couple rifles (Weatherby and a Remington ) that group better without the muzzle brakes. Could be the harmonics of the barrel with extra weight.

My no.4 mk1 carbine ,21" barrel, looks similar to yours ,without the flash hider , I use 150 gr. Sierra's and group 1 1/4-1 1/2 " at 100 yds. Using 174 gr. Woodleigh for hunting round , heavy brush, grouping 1 - 1 1/4" at 50-yds.

150-gr Sierra  IMR- 4895   44-gr.    2515 fps

174-gr  Woodleigh  IMR-4895   42-gr  <2400> fps

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2017 at 11:58am
I gave up on mine It gets 3 or 4 good shots then it goes off into Neverneverland
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2017 at 1:54pm
I haven't, mainly because it groups fine with the 174 Gr ones.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nitro-express Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2017 at 11:56am
I've used Speer HotCors in a Martini and in a No 4 Mk 1. Stupid accurate.

I use Varget, 41 gr, OAL of 2.89". My last batch were with CCI BR-2's, but have also used WLR.

I've also used Berdan primed SA cases, pulled the FMJ, replaced the bullet with a Speer, silly accurate.

When I ran out of Hornady 150's, the only bullet I could find was the Speer, was pretty apprehensive given the 311 dia. I needed have been concerned, with no other change, just the bullet, groups went in half. 

My only issue now is how to obtain a higher font sight for my SMLE sporter. It has a Sussex barrel, nearly LN. It shoots high, I need a taller front sight. It's a plastic piece, 15/32 dovetail. The ramp has 3/4" spacing on the holes. Totally weird.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pogson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2018 at 7:04pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

I've tried everything to get this carbine to shoot well with 150 Gr bullets. I've tried 4 powders (IMR 3031, IMR 4895, H335 & Varget). 3 different 150 Gr pills. ( Hornady, Speer & Norma) lots of differing charge weights from light through "mid range" to "spicy" & 3 kinds of primers. I've messed with seating depths & anything else I can think of but I just guess it prefers the 174 Gr ones. The BEST group (pattern actually) was 7 1/2" for 10-rounds @ 200yds!
That's marginally useful, even on game the size of deer. Something horrible is happening. You could look for loose screws/bands. You could look for some awful dings at the muzzle. You could try seating bullets out farther, as long as possible without hitting the rifling. That could also give more case capacity and room for a grain or two more powder. You might have to single-feed if longer rounds won't feed from the magazine.

You could check your reloading practice too. Don't rely on the powder measure. Weigh each charge with an electronic scale. It's slow but I've found it satisfying. Trim cases to length each time in case they are varying in bearing length on the bullet.

If you can find a bore-scope or gunsmith, try to have the throat examined. Typically this problem will be a throat too long to guide the 150s into the barrel without knocking them out-of-round in the process. This is what seating out further might help. Neck-sizing only can help centre the bullet a bit. The body of the cartridge should align the bullet with the bore. You could also try those exasperatingly expensive copper/non-lead bullets. Copper is a lower density so the bullet is longer and might do what the 174s do. Nosler "partition" bullets also are a bit longer than single-core bullets. Of course, if the 174s work OK perhaps we don't need to worry about it but it does limit the flexibility of a rifle not to be able to have a wide choice of bullets. A crude test could be done by dropping a 150 gr bullet down the centre of the chamber with the muzzle pointed down. You can then use a rod and a caliper to measure how far in the bullet went before touching rifling. If the throat is eroded too far there's no good solution except using a larger diameter bullet or a rechambering operation (rather bad on a carbine...). Bullets up to .312 diameter are fairly common on the market but you may be able to go a bit larger with your bore.

I'd also try cast lead-alloy bullets. You might even try heavier than 174  if that's what the rifle "likes". When you get to 215gr or so, there's not much difference in performance between cast and jacketed in terms of velocity and the cast are much less expensive. They should be much more accurate than the groups you get with 150 jacketed bullets.

One last, desperate, measure: You could try reduced velocity loads. If the problem is damage to the bullet in the throat, launching at lower pressure/velocity should mean less damage and more accuracy. IMR4895 can run well to some very low charges. You should be able to see some effect if you use a starting load of that powder. If you need to go slower still with a faster burning powder, you're probably out of the running for a 150 gr hunting load.
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