Enfield-Rifles.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Reloading > Reloading .303 British
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - What is this Ammo?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

What is this Ammo?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Canuck View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: January 17 2012
Location: Agassiz BC
Status: Offline
Points: 2257
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What is this Ammo?
    Posted: February 03 2018 at 6:47pm
A buddy of mine in the Yukon has a few boxes of .303 was wanting to know if it is Ranger issue ammunition. Here is a picture of what he now has. Just a quick question but what manufacturer made this ammunition? THX!
Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 241
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2018 at 6:56pm
Valcartier Industries. MK VIIIz I believe, should be marked on the carton.
Back to Top
Macd View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2018
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 185
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Macd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2018 at 7:53am
Industries Valcartier Inc..  IVI in Quebec.  (general Dynamics Ordnance Division).  I believe they use IMR3031 as a powder and also still use the MK8z bullet.  While every Ranger I have known swears by them for hunting everything from seals to polar bears, they are not legal for hunting being made with FMJ "Military" type bullets.  Just as an aside they are, by military regulations, not for private sale or resale.  Technically they remain property of the Department of National Defence.   Each Ranger is issued a set quantity of rounds per year for his or her use.  They are not to be given away or sold.  Having said that, they are nice heavy brass that benefits from neck annealing after the first firing.   I have a thousand or so IVI 7.62x51 brass cases dating from the 1970 and 80's.   I am not sure if the Rangers will be allowed to keep their LE rifles after they get the new C19 .308 SAKO replacements.  If not, I expect a lot of IVI surplus to start showing up.
Back to Top
hoadie View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: March 16 2006
Location: Niagara/Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6956
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2018 at 8:07am
Sure wish they would release the Enfields to private sales!
Loose wimmen tightened here
Back to Top
paddyofurniture View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 26 2011
Location: NC
Status: Offline
Points: 3233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddyofurniture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2018 at 9:30am
Me too.
Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.
Back to Top
Canuck View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: January 17 2012
Location: Agassiz BC
Status: Offline
Points: 2257
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2018 at 10:28am
They could be reloaded rounds using that brass? But anyhow, we all should be looking out for that ammo in the future if and when it gets released on the open market. What if there is a shipping container or two filled with it?!
Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
Back to Top
Macd View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2018
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 185
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Macd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2018 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by Canuck Canuck wrote:

They could be reloaded rounds using that brass? But anyhow, we all should be looking out for that ammo in the future if and when it gets released on the open market. What if there is a shipping container or two filled with it?!


Primers are still crimped.  New brass.  Box looks familiar from what I can see.

I suspect that any unused ammo will be recycled but you never know.  They don't even sell range brass as surplus anymore. It gets crushed and sold to metal recycling.   If the Rangers get to keep their LE's what is left will likely be distributed.  This is the best chance to get some,  find it online or at shows.   The other off chance is that any stocks held by General Dynamics are released for public sale.   BTW the MK8z is perfectly safe for rifles and is more accurate and stable than previous designs.  IIRC it has a 174 grain boat tail bullet.  It was the first CF rifle round I fired from a NO 4 when I was an air cadet at summer camp at the RCAF airbase in Trenton Ontario.  That was the 1960's.  I know this is somewhat sacrilegious on a LE forum but I much preferred, as did my shoulder, the FNC1 (FAL).Shocked
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 8965
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2018 at 2:53pm
IVI Industries Valcartier Industies, CANADA, was made in the 80's & '90's specifically for the Canadian rangers.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
Macd View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2018
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 185
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Macd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2018 at 7:23am
General Dynamics still was manufacturing  .303 up until very recently.  I believe they continue to use the IVI brand name.  I know that I have .223 cases stamped with post 2000 dates.  They also manufacture powder at their plant in Valleyfield Quebec.  It makes most of the IMR brand.  Shamu is correct.  It is more properly Industries Valcartier Industries.  Don't ask, it is a Canadian bilingual thing.

Of interest, they specify a MV of 844 MPS or 2769 FPS.  That is pretty much identical to 7.62x51 C21 NATO approved "Ball".

https://www.gd-otscanada.com/product/cartridge-303/
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 241
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2018 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by Macd Macd wrote:



Of interest, they specify a MV of 844 MPS or 2769 FPS.  That is pretty much identical to 7.62x51 C21 NATO approved "Ball".

 
Well, that's got me thinking.  The Mk VIII bullet is supposed to be 175 gr.  The GD website lists the bullet weight as 10 grams (154 grains).   I chrono'ed some IVI MkVIIIz ammo a few years back, I'll dig up the results.  I know it was higher than Mk VIIz; but not that much higher.  Did they change the bullet weight, or is that the data for the soft point bullet (which might be a 150 gr).   I'll pull one of the bullets and check. 
 
 
 
 
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 241
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2018 at 5:19pm
Checked my notes, 10 rounds of IVI ‘04 MK VIIIz chrono’ed at MV=2484, ES=43 and SD=11.6 from my LB No.4 (.3035 bore/.315 groove dia.). Temp was 60 deg F. Shooting Chrony Alpha Master 15 feet from muzzle.

That same day, 10 rounds of DAC ’56 VIIz chrono’ed at MV=2403,ES=54, SD=21.

174 gr SMK over 42.5 gr Re 15 Reloads chrono’ed at MV=2550, ES=60, SD=19.

I’ve since dropped my 174 gr SMK Match loads to 40.0 gr Re 15.




Back to Top
Macd View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2018
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 185
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Macd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2018 at 6:29am
Be interested to see the other end of that box of cartridges. Perhaps they are soft points. Good info britrifles. The GD site is obviously referring to the lighter rounds.
Back to Top
Pedro View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 20 2016
Location: Cumbria, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 190
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pedro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2018 at 2:01pm
I do wonder if, perhaps for a while whether the Rangers' LE rifles, once replaced will be put into store and kept. That way, if more rifles are needed for some emergency or the replacement rifles prove to be problematic in some way, they are covered. I can see some desk jockey thinking along those lines. Let's face it, there's a whole world full of Lee Enfields that were withdrawn from service and kept in stores, before the private would-be owner was able to get their hands on them somewhere down the line.
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 8965
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2018 at 2:20pm
That would be the smart thing to do, which pretty much guarantees it won't be done!Censored
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
hoadie View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: March 16 2006
Location: Niagara/Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6956
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2018 at 5:37pm
Speaking of that...Tony Sugden (R.I.P.) told me that when he went to the Falklands, they had pulled Bren guns out of storage for the festivities.
Loose wimmen tightened here
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 8965
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2018 at 5:56am
I think they were the 7.62 (L4A4) Brens?
They probably had some stored because the magazine feed was better than the belt in bad conditions.
L4A4 in front Jimpy behind.

https://www.subeimagenes.com/img/brits05fd-239494.jpg
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.05
Copyright ©2001-2016 Web Wiz Ltd.