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1919 Lithgow

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Rockape2 View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 30 2013 at 3:56am
A new addition to our Enfield family, I'm looking for any information on the z131 stamps on the underside of the bolt and rear of the action, many thanks. What do you think?

 

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Rockape2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockape2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 4:11am
Sorry thats z151 stamps  not z131 Confused
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5thBatt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 5thBatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 5:16am
The Z151 is the batching or PAA (Proofed Action Assembly) number, if these numbers match (as yours does) means you have the original bolt to your rifle, the reason for the number is to keep the two together untill they were serial numbered.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockape2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 5:58am
Hi 5th Batt,
Ah I see many thanks.
 
I would be very interested in where and what history this rifle has been through. The fore end and hand guards are replacements (when unknown) the wood is stamped SLAZ41 the Butt has a 7/46 date which suggests refurb at that time, the nose cap is numbered to match the rifle and stamped SAF the rear sight protector stamped OA rear sight is original matching every other part has the Lithgow star with an A in the middle, even the oil bottle is lithgow stamped. Would anyone know what the number 3 over 98813 over a faint NSW (New South Wales) means.
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Homer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 7:40am
The 3 over 98813 is 3rd Military District in Victoria and 98813 is the inventory number. Both were applied to a previous rifle when it was issued to that state. The 7/46 doesn't indicate refurb but the R over MA does and the date indicates when it was done. I have some doubt whether this rifle was ever refurbed and therefore question the origins of the butt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote muffett.2008 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 6:40pm
It's a pity your pics are so oversize, it just takes too long for them to download, days I have, weeks I don't.
 The butt is certainly interesting, I would appreciate closer pic's, resized smaller of course, at the moment I'm slightly(mostly in agreement with Andrew) it seems to have been in too many places at the same time and still with it's original barrel.
 Just as an aside Stuart and Andrew, I have this year gap in my lot, just in case you have a spareTongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockape2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 9:11pm
he!!o Homer & Muffett.2008.
 
Thank you for your replies, now I have some questions if I may.
 
"Both applied to a previous rifle when it was issued to that state" So the butt is off an older rifle any idea of a date from the stamps? What happened to that rifle to allow the butt to be reused.
 
"Doubt this rifle was ever refurbed" Does that mean it's still all original, but now worn, how would a refurb rifle differ from this? re blued metalwork? Would the fore end and hand guards not have been changed during refurb, slaz41 during WWII maybe?
 
"It seems to have been in too many places at the same time and still with it's original barrel" How can you tell where it's been? Is it unusual to find one with the original barrel?
 
My other Enfields are more modern from the late 50's-80's so if I'm asking the wrong questions, sorry. When I saw this rifle and the numbers matched (original stamps) the wood the barrel/bore and it was a bargain for UK prices just had to have it. 
Will try to do smaller pic's what area would you like to have pictures of.
Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackAck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 10:44pm
Tasty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 7:58am
Muffer I just sold one of the best early maple rifle's I've owned and dated 1919. Sorry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 5thBatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 8:10am
Originally posted by Homer Homer wrote:

Muffer I just sold one of the best early maple rifle's I've owned and dated 1919. Sorry.


& so you should be, trust you didn't sell it to Simon.
Out of luck when it comes to me also Muff, i'm still after a early MkIII* Lithgow for myself so if you find 2.........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 8:45am
Originally posted by Rockape2 Rockape2 wrote:

he!!o Homer & Muffett.2008.
 
Thank you for your replies, now I have some questions if I may.
 
"Both applied to a previous rifle when it was issued to that state" So the butt is off an older rifle any idea of a date from the stamps? What happened to that rifle to allow the butt to be reused.
 
"Doubt this rifle was ever refurbed" Does that mean it's still all original, but now worn, how would a refurb rifle differ from this? re blued metalwork? Would the fore end and hand guards not have been changed during refurb, slaz41 during WWII maybe?
 



Your rifle was issued to the 6th Military District in the state of Tasmania indicated by the 6 on the top side of the action accompanied by the inventory number. The rifle that the butt was originally attached was issued to 3MD in Victoria. Can't see a manufacture date on the butt but it is a MkIII* so it would have been assembled between 1918 to 1922. I suspect because of the high number it was issued after the war.
I don't think your rifle was refurbished at the time indicated on the butt, or at all because it still has its original 1920 dated barrel and the metal finish is not parkerised. Also it is highly unlikely a 41 dated forend would have been assembled to the rifle in any post war refurb. No one could say with any certainty when the forend was fitted but it could have been put on by anyone at any time, even last week maybe. Its  become fairly evident to me, from what I see and read on these forums, restoring banged up old sporters with mismatched parts has become more of a focus than collecting good original rifles. They certainly generate more discussion. This murks the water when trying to determine a rifles possible history.
  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 8:52am
Originally posted by 5thBatt 5thBatt wrote:

Originally posted by Homer Homer wrote:

Muffer I just sold one of the best early maple rifle's I've owned and dated 1919. Sorry.


& so you should be, trust you didn't sell it to Simon.
Out of luck when it comes to me also Muff, i'm still after a early MkIII* Lithgow for myself so if you find 2.........



5th, apart from the odd 1934/35 date, Ive got nothing left between 1921 and 1941. 55 rifles gone in about 4 months including six 1953's. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 9:03am
Just had another quick look at the photo's. The butt looks walnut and could be off an old English rifle, in which case it could be off one of the rifles gifted to Australia by the British after the war.
In any case I doubt it was assembled to this rifle in 1946 as indicated by the butt stamps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 5thBatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 9:07am
"Its  become fairly evident to me, from what I see and read on these forums, restoring banged up old sporters with mismatched parts has become more of a focus than collecting good original rifles. They certainly generate more discussion."

I have noticed this trend as well Homer.
  
Rockape2 The best advice i can give you is listen & learn from what Homer has to say, i already notice some poor info given you on the other thread on this rifle on another forum.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 5thBatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 9:27am
Originally posted by Homer Homer wrote:

Originally posted by 5thBatt 5thBatt wrote:

Originally posted by Homer Homer wrote:

Muffer I just sold one of the best early maple rifle's I've owned and dated 1919. Sorry.


& so you should be, trust you didn't sell it to Simon.
Out of luck when it comes to me also Muff, i'm still after a early MkIII* Lithgow for myself so if you find 2.........



5th, apart from the odd 1934/35 date, Ive got nothing left between 1921 and 1941. 55 rifles gone in about 4 months including six 1953's. 

Curious as to why but feel i dont want to know why, just hope everything is fine with you brother.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockape2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 4:06pm
Hi Homer & 5thBatt.
 
Thank you both for your time and information about my rifle, I have to say I'm very happy with it.
 
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