Enfield-Rifles.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Enfields > Enfield Rifles
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - #4 cocking pieces
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

#4 cocking pieces

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Canuck View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: January 17 2012
Location: Agassiz BC
Status: Offline
Points: 2770
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: #4 cocking pieces
    Posted: November 05 2014 at 12:45pm
I just acquired 2 new #4 cocking pieces that still had storage wax. They both are marked DOW with a broad arrow inside of a C (I think, they aren't really cleaned up yet). They are also the late variant without the dished part directly in front of the 3 grooved pull knob showing a 90 degree turn from the knob to the main body. Is this a Canadian (no LB stamped anywhere) or Savage US made piece or is it from some other manufacturer? These would have been used on the #4/Mk2 rifles and lack the 'stepped down' profile of the earlier cocking pieces. It may sound nit-picky to some people but I like to know which parts would have been used for each #4 variant and for future restoration projects. Thanks to anyone who responds.
Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member

Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Offline
Points: 10251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2014 at 3:30pm
broad arrow in "C" would indicate canada , not necessarily LB . 
Back to Top
Canuck View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: January 17 2012
Location: Agassiz BC
Status: Offline
Points: 2770
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2014 at 3:43pm
I was thinking that after I wrote this. DND (dept. of national defense). Thanks A square 10!I have them soaking in solvent right now so by the next time I check all markings should be clear and readable.
Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
Back to Top
Bear43 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: August 11 2010
Location: Doland, SD
Status: Offline
Points: 2547
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2014 at 9:05pm
Take a pic or two as well, please. Love seeing NOS parts freshly cleaned!
Back to Top
W.R.Buchanan View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: September 21 2014
Location: Ojai CA
Status: Offline
Points: 329
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2014 at 9:37am
Canuck:  My #4Mk1 came with a cocking piece/striker that was not grooved.  When you pulled the trigger the entire piece would be pulled down about 1/16" to the bottom of the slot in the receiver before it would let off.  This made the trigger suck big time.
 
I bought a grooved one from Sarco and installed it yesterday after seeing how the one on my newly acquired #4 Mk1* Long Branch does not move at all when you pulled the trigger.
 
The result was Immediate Improvement of the trigger pull and Creep reduced down to almost nothing.
 
The big difference was that on the ungrooved cocking piece/striker that bar that extends forward and has the sear on its front face was about 1/16"  thinner than the new cocking piece.
 
Obviously there are some substantial differences in these parts over the run, and I have no idea why my first gun had this bogus part installed. There are variations in the slots cut in the part and whether or not the part will allow the half cock provision.  My earlier one would,,, the new one won't.
 
I have come to the conclusion that in order to have a "correct gun," one must not only know the year it was made but also the month and the day,,,  and then compare this with the parts inventory available at the Armory where the gun was assembled on the day it was assembled. This would not begin to cover rebuilds which were assembled with whatever was available. Nobody was collecting Enfield's in 1943.
 
Things changed on a daily basis, and what was built yesterday may not have the exact same parts on it as what was built the day before. I would be willing to believe that there were multiple suppliers for many of the smaller parts, and being in the Machine Shop Business and dealing with the Govt daily,,, I also know that every shops interpretation of a given drawing is different.  As a result we do a thing called "Sole Source," which insures that the same shop makes the same critical parts everytime so they come out as close as possible to the same every time. This insures interchangeable parts for that system, instead of parts that must be fitted.
 
With todays high level of machinery and the ability to hold extremely close tolerances, parts are more interchangeable than ever before.  However they still look different in many cases.  Just look at the array of parts made for AR's, they are pretty much all directly interchangeable, but the finishes do vary greatly.
 
I see the idea of reassembling a "Perfectly Correct Rifle" made 70 years ago to be a bit of a challenge, since there is no way for anyone to know what exact parts a gun was shipped with on any given day.  You can get close but if you really want to split hairs, (which the most diehard collectors seem to want to do,) I see the task as unachievable unless the gun is "New In Box" and never altered in any way.
 
Only then would you know exactly how the gun was built.
 
Randy
 
 
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
Back to Top
Bear43 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: August 11 2010
Location: Doland, SD
Status: Offline
Points: 2547
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2014 at 5:13pm
Randy, that ungrooved cocking piece was a wartime manufacturing expedient to produce parts quicker. They do not have a half-cock position and after the war were replaced whenever a rifle was FTR'd.
Back to Top
Canuck View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: January 17 2012
Location: Agassiz BC
Status: Offline
Points: 2770
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2014 at 6:05pm
Randy, I agree with your synopsis. Bear, same thing. I'll get pics of my new pieces for you guys.
Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
Back to Top
Canuck View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: January 17 2012
Location: Agassiz BC
Status: Offline
Points: 2770
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2014 at 12:41pm
Tried getting pictures but I had problems with the up close shots. I'll keep trying though. Meanwhile, i did a little digging on the internet and think I have found out whom DOW is as a manufacturer. Delphos Ordnance Works.
Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
Back to Top
W.R.Buchanan View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: September 21 2014
Location: Ojai CA
Status: Offline
Points: 329
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 9:17am
Canuck:  see if your camera has a "Macro" setting ?   Use that for your close ups and they will be in a little better focus.  Took me a while to figure this out but as you'll notice most of my pics look pretty good.  No reason why everyone else's can't too. Also when the camera focus' (first stage of the trigger pull)  note where the green boxes are on the subject.  Those are the exact places the camera is focusing on, if they aren't what you want then there is no sense taking the pic .  You just have to move the camera around until it does what you want.
 
Shot my gun yesterday and the trigger was excellent.  The rear sight worked well and I had no problem indexing the very clear front sight on the target at 100 yards.
 
Shot a real nice 6" group at 100 yards too!
 
More load development necessary.  6MOA just won't cut it.
 
Randy
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.