Enfield-Rifles.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Reloading > Reloading 7.62 Enfield
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Alternative 7.62 brass
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Alternative 7.62 brass

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
450 Fuller View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: June 07 2022
Location: New Mexico-AK-A
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 450 Fuller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Alternative 7.62 brass
    Posted: November 03 2022 at 3:55pm
NOT RECOMMENDED-DO NOT DO THIS AT HOME- OFFICE- OR RANGE

Under the "what if" heading, should 7.62 or 308 WCF brass suddenly
disappear, or become unavailable.

With reduced, careful fire-forming and loading procedures, there are options.
There are at least 3 or more calibers based on the .308 WCF case.
Those familiar with MAJ George Nonte, understand what can be SAFELY done in an emergency. I have successfully produced safe results in a 7.62 Ishapore SMLE.
Thank you, MAJ Nonte.
Only the dead have seen the end of war-Plato

Socialism-The equal sharing of misery-Churchill

MACVSOG-5th Special Forces Gp
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Goosic View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 7234
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 4:03pm
Would you be so kind as to expound on this topic for those of us not familiar with MAJ George Nonte in regards to the alternatives should actual 7.62mm/.308 cases become unavailable?
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 4737
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 4:08pm
I’d think that the 7.62/.308 case would be the second last case to become unavailable.  The last being the 5.56/.223 case.  So, you probably don’t have to worry about this. 


Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member

Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Offline
Points: 13101
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 4:17pm
that was my opinion as well - those and 9mm luger , besides ive got enough for my lifetime , my kids better learn to reload all the saved brass 
Back to Top
Goosic View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 7234
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 5:18pm
I got spooked when I couldn't find any .243W brass.
I had 5000 rounds of Lake City 7.62 brass that are now resized to .243W. I'm good to go...
Back to Top
450 Fuller View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: June 07 2022
Location: New Mexico-AK-A
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 450 Fuller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2022 at 5:54pm
Goosic:

You are on track. Nonte's book goes into detail. I chose not to expound on this
as head space, rifle condition, and selected brass as well as individual subjective loading practices are all beyond control.

I think this is an area for advanced handloaders.
It worked for me as I tend to be cautious.
A pattern 1917, a pre-64 Model 70 might be a better test bed for increased pressures.
An Enfield SMLE like a converted 7.62 Ishapore is an individual rifle,
and as such there are those that think even the use of 308 WCF brass
is treading on thinner ice. These are older rifles.

The best bet is probably to stick with strong surplus US-made 7.62
brass. I tend to treat the SMLE Enfield rifles somewhat like the Krag-Jorgensen
rifles in 30 Army (30-40 Krag). Reduced pressures along with avoiding
heavier bullets. The 1895 Winchester could actually handle heavier bullets better than the Krag, as the Krag had only one locking lug
Only the dead have seen the end of war-Plato

Socialism-The equal sharing of misery-Churchill

MACVSOG-5th Special Forces Gp
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 4737
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2022 at 3:30am
I do prefer 7.62 brass to commercial .308 in my No. 4 DCRA conversion, but I also use Lapua .308, it is high quality and on the heavy side for commercial brass, headspace is well under .308 SAMMI No-Go.  

You have control of pressures by reloading, although some things are not fully quantified reloading manuals.  Pressures can be affected by substituting 7.62 for .308 brass, magnum primers for standard primers, one bullet type for another.  This is where you should exercise caution and always err on the side of reduced charges. Especially if you intend on shooting a lot of your custom made load. 


Back to Top
Goosic View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 7234
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2022 at 4:49am
Originally posted by 450 Fuller 450 Fuller wrote:

Goosic:

You are on track. Nonte's book goes into detail. I chose not to expound on this
as head space, rifle condition, and selected brass as well as individual subjective loading practices are all beyond control.

I think this is an area for advanced handloaders.
It worked for me as I tend to be cautious.
A pattern 1917, a pre-64 Model 70 might be a better test bed for increased pressures.
An Enfield SMLE like a converted 7.62 Ishapore is an individual rifle,
and as such there are those that think even the use of 308 WCF brass
is treading on thinner ice. These are older rifles.

The best bet is probably to stick with strong surplus US-made 7.62
brass. I tend to treat the SMLE Enfield rifles somewhat like the Krag-Jorgensen
rifles in 30 Army (30-40 Krag). Reduced pressures along with avoiding
heavier bullets. The 1895 Winchester could actually handle heavier bullets better than the Krag, as the Krag had only one locking lug
 
Just a FYI here 450 Fuller.  The Ishapore 2A and 2A1 rifles are NOT and NEVER were conversions. They are ther own entities and used a different grade of steel during the forging process. They were also proofed to handle and tolerate all offerings of 7.62x51 NATO ammunition by the Birmingham Proof Master and under strict guidance from the British Ministry of Defense prior to and during assembly.
Back to Top
The Armourer View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: June 23 2019
Location: Y Felinhelli
Status: Offline
Points: 1141
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2022 at 4:50am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

  Pressures can be affected by substituting 7.62 for .308 brass,


That is very true - as 7.62 has a thicker case the internal volume is lower than a 308 case, the same weight of powder in a smaller space has quite an effect on burn and pressures.
Back to Top
450 Fuller View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: June 07 2022
Location: New Mexico-AK-A
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 450 Fuller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2022 at 5:15am
You are correct, of course as to the strength and origin steel as to
the Ishapore 2A and 2A1.

As much as I like 7.62 U.S. brass, I do look for some available match brass
as small quantities have no primer crimp. AMC is the major US Army Command over
the small arms ammo plants.

RCBS makes a primer pocket swage which removes the crimp.
Only the dead have seen the end of war-Plato

Socialism-The equal sharing of misery-Churchill

MACVSOG-5th Special Forces Gp
Back to Top
Goosic View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 7234
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2022 at 5:53am
Originally posted by 450 Fuller 450 Fuller wrote:

You are correct, of course as to the strength and origin steel as to
the Ishapore 2A and 2A1.

As much as I like 7.62 U.S. brass, I do look for some available match brass
as small quantities have no primer crimp. AMC is the major US Army Command over
the small arms ammo plants.

RCBS makes a primer pocket swage which removes the crimp.
I like you will not expound on this but suffice it to say that,  Lake City 7.62x51mm LR and Match brass is readily available for reloading through www.diamondkbrass.com
Back to Top
Goosic View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 7234
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2022 at 6:04am
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

  Pressures can be affected by substituting 7.62 for .308 brass,


That is very true - as 7.62 has a thicker case the internal volume is lower than a 308 case, the same weight of powder in a smaller space has quite an effect on burn and pressures.
Most current reloading manuals have two separate listings for the .308W and 7.62mm Military and also describe the use of commercial and military brass respectively but, if you are just out to kill paper for the day, load to the starting charge weight and forego any worries...
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 15493
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2022 at 9:49am
Just compensate for the decreased internal volume by down loading (2~3 Gr) & then working back up to the same velocity. I've found with several makes & lots of cases the real difference is about 1.5~ 2.0 Gr of IMR 3031 or IMR 4895.
This assumes you're using a max load.
If you load is Middle of the road you'd do the same but just for the velocity change.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
Zed View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: May 01 2012
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 5063
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2022 at 1:20pm
450 Fuller, I was just wondering if it was one of your modified cases or a standard case that had the over pressure; which unfortunately wrecked your Ishapore?
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 15493
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2022 at 2:15pm
That's a good point its awfully easy to mix one form such a similar batch.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 4737
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2022 at 2:25pm
I’m afraid it remains a mystery of what went wrong.

Of all the things that can cause this magnitude of overpressure, I’d think cases are pretty low on the list. 

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.