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Sgtrick View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 30 2020 at 9:53am
I just aquired a bunch of 1961 DA 762x51 military ball ammo. My question to the forum is whether I should put it through my long branch DCRA conversion . The conversion number is 54, so an early one. I posted the rifle on the forum back in june.
At present im shooting quite light powder coated bulllet loads through it and they look promising.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2020 at 4:21pm
Military ball ammunition for a 7.62x51mm NATO chambered rifle, including your DCRA converted No4 will suffice providing the rifle is of sound working condition. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2020 at 5:09pm
I still have about a thousand rounds of Dominion Arsenal (DA) ‘59 and ‘62 7.62 NATO ball ammunition.  I can tell you that DCRA competitors fired hundreds of thousands of rounds of this ammunition thru DCRA converted No. 4 rifles in the ‘60s and ‘70s with no ill effects (not all in the same rifle of course!).  

I shot a few hundred rounds of this ammo thru my DCRA conversion with no problems.  It is excellent brass for reloading, heavier than .308 commercial brass, so reduce charge weight accordingly.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2020 at 5:58pm
I should have added, don’t expect great accuracy with this ammo.  I posted an article a year or two back on accuracy results with this ammo thru my DCRA No. 4. I  also ran tests by substituting the service bullet with a 150 gr SMK which gave no improvement.   I then loaded the pulled service bullets with 40.0 gr Varget with very good results.  The conclusion was that the powder charges in the DA ball ammo was not well controlled, weights varied by as much as 3 grains in a sample of 40 rounds.  That accounted for the poor vertical dispersion which was a constant complaint with the DCRA converted rifles.  It seems nobody questioned the ammo back then.  

In one of the tests, I pulled the bullets from 40 rounds, dumped the powder into the measure, and recharged the cases with exactly 40.0 gr (trickle charged) of that same powder and reseated the bullet in the case.  Accuracy was very good, on par with my match handloads.   I did run the cases thru a collet die with the primer pin removed, otherwise neck tension was very light. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgtrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2020 at 10:00am
I also have a lot of IVI ball ammo. Are the charges inconsitant in that as well. I remember in the military in the 80s it seemed to be quite accurate in our FN- FALs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2020 at 4:25pm
I don’t know about IVI 7.62 from that time period.  I shot the FN C1 when I was in the Canadian military in the late 70s to early 1980’s and I don’t recall it being particularly accurate, but that was before I actually learned how to shoot.    I have some IVI Mk 8z .303 (issued to the Canadian Rangers) that shoots fairly decent.  Not sure what the production years are.  

The No. 4 7.62 Conversions were plagued with accuracy problems from the beginning.  Many methods of stocking up were tried, even a fully bedded barrel all the way to the muzzle.  Some believed that the No. 4 could never be made to shoot the 7.62 NATO cartridge accurately.   Eventually it was resolved with a 4 lb free floating barrel, but I think the root of the problem was poor quality control of the service ammunition at the time, not just in Canada, but in the UK as well. How could it shoot accurately when charge weights varied by as much a 3 grains!  As handloaders, we strive for +/- 0.1 grains! 

Service Rifle matches were always shot with issue ammunition at that time, and the British NRA and Canadian DCRA didn’t start paying attention to manufacture of ammunition specifically intended for the major matches (Bisley and Connaught annual meetings) until they exhausted all the tricks of accurizing the No. 4.  It wasn’t until the later part of the 1960s that they caught on to the ammunition problem.  

What is interesting is that the Bisley rules changed because of this problem.  Numerous other rifles chambered for the .308/7.62 cartridge were allowed by 1968/69.  Until that time, only the No. 1, No. 3 or No. 4 rifles were allowed in the SR(b) matches.  Competitors were very dissatisfied with the 7.62 conversions, but they knew the days of issue .303 ammunition were ending as it was no longer a service cartridge, so something had to be done.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgtrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2020 at 8:23am
Britrifles, thanks for the repy. Very informative. I think I will pull some of this 1961 DA and 77 IVI apart and check them as you did. It would be a good winter project. While the weather is decent im trying to get the rifle shooting with powder coated cas bullets. The first outing and load shot into an inch at 50 yds. Looks promising.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2020 at 11:58am
With the 168 gr Sierra MatchKing, DA ‘59 or DA ‘62 Case, WLR Primer, 40.0 gr Varget, I shot this group at 600 yards prone in sling with my UF 56 Mk 2 DCRA rifle.  Target is the NRA Mid Range target with 12 inch (2 MOA) 10 ring and 6 inch (1 MOA) x ring. 






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2020 at 2:57pm
Very nice!
I'm ashamed to admit I haven't been able to get to a range all year!
COVID.
Stare Of Emergency (just renewed)
& so on.
I am going to absolutely suck whenever I get to shoot next time.
Dead Cry Angry
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2020 at 4:46pm
i think its all about the increased testing and supressing the vote , increasing the vote fraud with mail ins  - hope it backfires on them , 

ive been at the range at least 5 out of 7 days a week all summer/fall 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgtrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2020 at 8:25am
Britrifles, great target. Now I know what to aim for.
Wish I had access to a 600 yd range. Ours is 200 and 300yd but limited to black powder at this time.
Going shoot some of the DA ammo this afternoon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2020 at 9:20am
Load up some 215 Gr cast bullets over compressed Holy Black in the .303, just for giggles.Wink
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2020 at 10:51am
Sgtrick, the DA 7.62 ball ammo I’ve shot grouped in the range of 2.5 to 4.5 MOA.  Sometimes I’d get lucky with a 10 round string that had no fliers (which were almost always vertical).  I’d imagine that there will be variability across various years and lot numbers.  Please do let us know how it shoots. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgtrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2020 at 12:10pm
Shamu. I have shot alot of blackpowder 303 over the years. I used 311284 mould that cast a bit over size , 55 gns of 3f. The bullet was 217 gr and gas checked. It shot very well in my martini carbine. Wish i still had it. Even managed to bag a few whitetails with it.
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